Silver Nuggets: Kyle Turris returns to Phoenix
by Adnan on Jan 24, 2012 1:00 PM EST
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Kyle Turris will make his return to Phoenix tonight in his first game back since the trade to Ottawa. Turris has stabilised the second line position for Ottawa with 13 points in 18 games, which is already more than Bobby Butler and Kaspars Daugavins. Projected over a full 82-game season, that would leave Turris at 59 points. Certainly an elite second line centre if he can do that over a full season.
Turris also has a +11 plus/minus rating, however that has more to do with Craig Anderson's .950 save percentage with Turris on the ice. Still, while I still think it was a mistake to give up what the Senators did for him, Turris has certainly had a very solid start in Ottawa. In his first game back against the club from whom Turris forced a trade, one would have to think he will be motivated more than usual tonight.
David Rundblad meanwhile played only two games in Phoenix, picking up an assist in each game. However, since being sent to the AHL, he's scored a goal in 3 of the 5 games as well as adding an assist.
Last game
- Recap from last night. (Silver Seven, Ottawa Sun, Senators Extra)
- Post-game video from the coach and various players. (Ottawa Senators)
- The panel is split with three predicting a win and three going with a loss. Peter was missing in action. (Senators Extra)
- Kyle Turris feels his style fits in a lot better in Ottawa than it did in Phoenix. He might get booed a bit but at least it won't be sold out right? (Senators Extra, Sportsnet)
- So...Eugene Melnyk is the voice of reason now? (Ottawa Sun)
- Mika Zibanejad is the 16th best prospect in hockey according to this ranking. They are concerned that Zibanejad is only seeing slightly more ice time in the Elitserien than the NHL though. (Hockey Prospectus)
- The Senators have been very lucky with injuries to key players this season. (Ottawa Citizen)
- Kerry Fraser thinks Ryan Getzlaf should have received a penalty on the Erik Karlsson dive incident, though he does spell Karlsson's first name incorrectly. He also felt it would be inappropriate for the referee to label Karlsson a diver, and instead thinks the referee should have told MacLean that Karlsson took a dive (if he thought so). (TSN)
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And everyone knows that AHL goals are as good as NHL ones, right?
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
You should write an article on why you don’t have to be an elite player to dominate AHL!
Damn you Corey Locke.
I love soft players (especially Europeans) that play on the perimeter. Enigmas are awesome. Grit and heart-and-soul are red flags.
Erik Karlsson is better than your favourite player.
Twitter: @sens_adnan
by Adnan on Jan 24, 2012 1:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think that would be a short article
“Because the competition is not as good. The end.”
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
In the summer I write about trading Spezza
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
by Mark Parisi on Jan 24, 2012 2:08 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think you have to compare to all AHL defencemen who scored 3 goals in their first 5 AHL games.
I love soft players (especially Europeans) that play on the perimeter. Enigmas are awesome. Grit and heart-and-soul are red flags.
Erik Karlsson is better than your favourite player.
Twitter: @sens_adnan
Then I will complain about your methodology if I don’t like your conclusion.
I love soft players (especially Europeans) that play on the perimeter. Enigmas are awesome. Grit and heart-and-soul are red flags.
Erik Karlsson is better than your favourite player.
Twitter: @sens_adnan
You're ready for every Internet debate ever
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
Rundblad
has a big future ahead of him.
Big price to pay, but to get something of value in Turris, something of value had to be given up…….
5 years from now, hopefully Turris is an annual multi 25 goal, 70 pt guy, to offset Rundblad’s likely Karlsson (40-50 pt D, not this extraordinary year) imitation……and that 2nd round pick is a bust.
"If you aren't diving, you aren't trying"-Jordin Tootoo
PekKarlsson: The genetic mutant solution to all of Nashville and Ottawa's problems. Shea and Alfie approve.
Rundblad needs first pairing minutes to succeed.
With Cowen and Karlsson, he won’t get that. He may get 2nd pairing minutes, but that won’t let him reach his potential. Phoenix wanted that and can give him that.
All the best to him, and may he never score a goal against Ottawa. If he scores a ton against Boston and Pittsburgh, that would be great.
PHX
has him in the minors, and played him only a handful of games in the last month.
So no, PHX did not give him that.
Most teams have more than one solid smooth skating puckmoving D…..we do, too, its just that 2 of them are old. Part of the problem is lack of footspeed back there. We have Karlsson, a guy (Cowen) who’s skating/puck ability may never catch up to his valuable size and defensive ability, and guys in the minors with potential, but less than that of Rundblad. If Vancouver, Boston, Nashville, the Rangers, etc., have room for more than one of those guys, we should too…..
That said,
Its about the future, and Turris is a valuable worthwhile player that helps now, and will help later. We had to give up somebody worthwhile and tag, Rundblad was nominated.
Like you, I hope his offensive outbursts and smooth skating come against Boston etc.
"If you aren't diving, you aren't trying"-Jordin Tootoo
PekKarlsson: The genetic mutant solution to all of Nashville and Ottawa's problems. Shea and Alfie approve.
I think you misunderstood
Phoenix is an opportunity for top line minutes in the future for Rundblad. I don’t think anyone believes he’s ready to play top-pairing minutes at this stage of his career. Having him in the AHL does not mean that he’ll never get that opportunity in Phoenix—though he has some very good competition he’ll have to beat out.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
Top pairing minutes in Phoenix?
Yandle and OEL have something to say about that.
Co-manager, Silver Seven
That's what I'm saying
I think he’s got a higher ceiling than OEL, but there’s no way he’s better than either of those guys right now. If he wants top pairing in Phoenix, he’s going to have to beat some really talented guys.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
PHX is gonna follow the nashville model, it seems
acquire and develop young dmen, try to trade for cheaper assets when they get expensive. Nashville, with hamhuis, suter, weber, blum, franson, and ellis…it seems to work for nashville, as they seem to be financially viable in a small market, and manage to make the playoffs. Phoenix now has OEL, rundblad, gormley, goncharov, conor murphy, yandle and schlemko.
Ah
didn’t see your post……
I essentially agree, even though I don’ t think this strategy is just for small market teams.
All the good teams have several guys capable of top pair minutes…..having ehroff, bieksa and edler didn’t prevent the Canucks from acquiring Ballard (who at the time, was a huge cog in FLA) and Hamhuis.
Even if you think Karlsson (agreed) and Cowen (no sure thing IMO) will become solid, two way 25 min/gm D, there is still another 35 minutes to split in the bottom 4…..;.
We have lots of bottom 4/bottom pair prospects on D. Of course, they had little value, and wouldn’t have netted Turris. But Rundblad is above them all and had the best chance to become the Shattenkirk to Karlsson’s Pietrangelo.
"If you aren't diving, you aren't trying"-Jordin Tootoo
PekKarlsson: The genetic mutant solution to all of Nashville and Ottawa's problems. Shea and Alfie approve.
I agree
defensive depth is huge when gearing up for a championship. So is scoring depth, particularly the 2C position. Every cup team of the past few years has had great scoring depth at the centre position. The canucks acquired ballard, hamhuis, and ehrhoff via trades and free agency, after kesler stepped up to take that 2C spot. Bostons D is a patchwork of veteran free agent pickups and trades, chicago developed duncan keith with 2 years in the AHL, seabrook was in the NHL straight from junior (similar to cowen and karlsson), added veterans campbell, boynton and sopel via free agency, and hjalmarsson was a not too highly touted (108th overall) prospect at the time. This may be the type of model murray is looking at.
I also agree that the strategy nashville uses woulnt only work for small markets. If they could spend to the cap every year though, they wouldnt be giving up either weber or suter. They likely also wouldnt have given franson up for nothing. If the sens were in the position nashville is in right now, would you rather keep weber and or suter, and trade some defense prospects for forwards, or would you continue the cycle of draft, develop, trade defenceman as soon as his ELC is done?
I think
Yandle, OEL, Gormley, Summers and Murphy are all at that ‘potential top pair’ material.
And they still added Rundblad.
The only guys we have are Karlsson and Cowen.
Borocop, Gryba, Blood, Weircioch, are all great prospects, but to say having Karlsson on the top pair for the next 10 years precluded Rundblad from reaching his potential…….
I lived in Nashville for 5 years (recently moved to Augusta), and Weber, Suter, Hamhuis, didn’t prevent them from drafting and developing Blum, Ellis, Josi, Ekholm……..you can’t have enough of those guys.
I like Turris. I think its a good trade for now. But there is no denying it was a heavy price, and the justification (Rundblad would never be a top pairing D)……you can’t say that now. You probably can’t say that for the next couple of years. Karlsson was a mess as recently as last year in his own zone.
Many people said we overpaid…thankfully, Turris is keeping him quiet with his solid play. But Rundblad was hardly ‘surplus’ stored back in the garage.
"If you aren't diving, you aren't trying"-Jordin Tootoo
PekKarlsson: The genetic mutant solution to all of Nashville and Ottawa's problems. Shea and Alfie approve.
I don't think anyone's arguing that it was a heavy price
Or that Rundblad would never be a top pairing guy.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
Not that simple though.
There are guys who play Ok in the A and become regular NHLers, then there are guys (like Locke) who completely dominate the A but won’t ever be NHLers. I’ve always wondered why.
There are probably better leagues out there (KHL, SEL) but the AHL seems to be the closest to NHL style of play (indeed it’s full of lots of guys with dozens or hundreds of NHL games under their belts).
But you never really know until you bring a guy up.
While I understand what you're saying, I do think it's that simple
Most of the guys in the AHL aren’t as talented as those in the NHL, so success at that level is not necessarily an indicator of success at the NHL level.
But you’re right, there’s no real way of knowing until you give a guy a shot.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
Wouldn't Andy's SV% when Turris is on the ice have something to do with Turris?
He’s responsible defensively and I would assume that his two-way play helps Andy out, rather than the opposite…
by Pmoron on Jan 24, 2012 1:20 PM EST via mobile reply actions
The stat-y types generally accept on ice save % for a skater as more luck than defensive skill. I am a little in between but I think Craig Anderson contributed more to his save % than Turris did.
I love soft players (especially Europeans) that play on the perimeter. Enigmas are awesome. Grit and heart-and-soul are red flags.
Erik Karlsson is better than your favourite player.
Twitter: @sens_adnan
by Adnan on Jan 24, 2012 1:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I would concur
Turris is likely a smaller factor on the ice at the time of an Anderson save in many cases, behind Anderson, the responsible Condra and Alfredsson, and the D.
I think Turris is doing fine D-wise, and credit to the young man when it is due, but Andy making acrobat saves like he has for most of the past month, is probably less Turris and more Andy’s doing.
"If you aren't diving, you aren't trying"-Jordin Tootoo
PekKarlsson: The genetic mutant solution to all of Nashville and Ottawa's problems. Shea and Alfie approve.
You've got to give Turris credit
I believe I saw him break up 2 scoring chances right in front (or to the side) of Anderson last night, when the dman (not sure who) was out of position. Looked pretty responsible, in front of the net anyway, to me.
I was going to be meaner but we play them so their fans might read it. Plus, one of the Phoenix SBN guys is vehemently anti-fighting so he is awesome. ;)
I love soft players (especially Europeans) that play on the perimeter. Enigmas are awesome. Grit and heart-and-soul are red flags.
Erik Karlsson is better than your favourite player.
Twitter: @sens_adnan
by Adnan on Jan 24, 2012 1:31 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
True story
I’ve been to two sellouts in Phoenix.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
I love the arena.
And the surrounding area. You know, bars, restaurants, shopping … all the great things we take for granted when we go to Scotiabank Pla … oh, wait.
A Goal Horn Haiku
Hoooonk hoooonk honk honk hooooonk
That's the sound the train horn makes
Suck it, Toronto
Do you love the longass drive to get there?!
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
True story
They were both Arizona Cardinals games
Drew Brees- the REAL MVP.
by Alex Swift on Jan 24, 2012 6:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Hopefully Turris has a great game
Interesting note:
Last night on NHL network (US), Bob Mckenzie reported that JVR’s concussion likely stemmed from an elbow to the side of the head from Butler. Mckenzie reported that Butler apologized to his former teammate (college) after the game….it was part of a report in which several Flyers were involved with hits from Senator favorites (Neil/Read, Briere/Volchenkov).
I bring this up because apparently Potvin was beside himself calling JVR a diver, and that he was embellishing no contact. I like Potvin at times, but def not a classy move.
Anyway, i have been harping on Butler doing something noticable. Maybe tonight’s the night!
"If you aren't diving, you aren't trying"-Jordin Tootoo
PekKarlsson: The genetic mutant solution to all of Nashville and Ottawa's problems. Shea and Alfie approve.
Also, Carkner back in for Borowiecki.
I love soft players (especially Europeans) that play on the perimeter. Enigmas are awesome. Grit and heart-and-soul are red flags.
Erik Karlsson is better than your favourite player.
Twitter: @sens_adnan
I like Kerry Fraser when he sees things my way
I love soft players (especially Europeans) that play on the perimeter. Enigmas are awesome. Grit and heart-and-soul are red flags.
Erik Karlsson is better than your favourite player.
Twitter: @sens_adnan
I like his articles
I find he’s objective and explains things well.
by I Still Miss Hossa!!! on Jan 24, 2012 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
I saw
He uses his suspension as an excuse not to go
by I Still Miss Hossa!!! on Jan 24, 2012 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
I'm surprised the suspension doesn't include the ASG + normal regular season game suspension
Just seems like a logical thing to do.
It’s like when you were a kid and got grounded. If Timmy was having a birthday party, you couldn’t go because you had to stay in the naughty corner. Or in this case, if Eugene was having a party, you couldn’t go because you elbowed Timmy in the head.
If he really doesn't want to go, he should be made to go as part of the suspension.
A Goal Horn Haiku
Hoooonk hoooonk honk honk hooooonk
That's the sound the train horn makes
Suck it, Toronto
Frankly, I am surprised players selected to the ASG are allowed to opt out.
It should be part of their job, to represent the best of the NHL, a command performance. To not go is to insult the people who put bread on your table.
by whatsinaname on Jan 24, 2012 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
Agree. Like a little child throwing a tantrum.
by whatsinaname on Jan 24, 2012 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
Really? I think it's better for him not to attend
doesn’t attract attention and avoids the “He shouldn’t be here, he’s suspended” arguments.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=613450
In the first half of the article Bill Daly is quoted saying they told OV he was welcome to go, but the NHL wouldn’t insist or push him to go. I don’t know about you, but that doesn’t sound like they wanted him there.
Article still makes him sound petulant
Daly’s response later didn’t sound right either. I think OV thinks too much of himself in believing that his suspension will dominate the ASG if he were to attend.
by whatsinaname on Jan 24, 2012 8:05 PM EST up reply actions
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