Brian Murray and the Rebuilding Sens
I have read a lot of chatter on Silver Sevens questioning Bryan Murray's possible decision to load up for a playoff run this year. People seem paniced that this would interfere with the "rebuild". That we would trade away future assets for a playoff run now so early in the process, and that we would hurt the long term viability of the franchise. In my best Gob Bluth voice I say C'MON! The whole purpose of the rebuild was to create a playoff hockey team. Surprise! Bryan Murray was right. Last year was an abberation, last year lots of guys had sub par years, last year it seems the majority of the guys were playing for a guy they did not like and/or respect, last year there were a lot of passengers.
Bryan Murray righted that ship and he recieves full credit for doing so. He hired a guy who has to be in the running for the Jack Addams, he traded away a lot of coasters, he promoted a bunch of guys from Bingo with winning pedegree who were now NHL ready and he has a bunch of vets finally playing up to potential again, and has a stockpile of tallented forwards/assets such as Pumpel, Prince, Noesen, Stone, Z-Bad and Pageau in the prospect pool. He has a team sitting in 5th place in the East, 4th if not for the idiotic playoff seeding rules, and is well under the cap when it comes to available cash to sign players he wants to have going forward to new contracts. In short, the ship is righted and Murray deserves full marks for turning this team around in such a short time span. Burke has had 4 years with the Leafs and though there is a little improvement, I still see no strategic vision. Now we are looking at a team that no longer appears to be a fluke or abberation but a legit playoff team. There are teams out there with mre pressing rebuilding needs than Ottawa, (i'm looking at you Ducks) who are looking to trade legit NHL talent. I think Murray would be a fool to just stick with a rebuild mentality and not at least go kicking some tires.
Additionally, lets think about this, if you want to turn your team into a group of playoff warriors for playoff appearances in the future, does it not make sense to blood them as early as you can with playoff experience? It gives you an early chance to separate the shrinking violets from the playoff performers.
Lets be clear, I am not advocating a retooling of the roster, but if your goal is to be in the playoffs and it looks like you are going to get there, why not try to win something once you do. As Terry Bradshaw said in Cannonball run "If you're going to be a bear, be a grizzly"!
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It depends on the cost.
Trading one or two prospects away for a young prospect or rising star (Rundblad for Turris) is fine. But we don’t want to mortgage the farm for some over the hill guy. I think we’re an elite player away from being a true contender (especially once Alfie hangs them up), but shrewd moves to bring in young talent would be great.
Sorry, I disagree
I do agree that the Sens this year are legimitately competitive: they might win a play-off series, and, if they’re lucky, two. The Sens might get lucky and beat the Bruins or the Rangers in the play-offs, say, but that’s the thing with luck: you can’t count on it.
Success can be deceptive. If the Sens regress to playing middling hockey, which is what until recently they had been playing, then they’re fighting for their play-off lives instead of sitting pretty.
The team’s depth in forward prospects has not yet been tested, and they need to improve their depth in net, and perhaps on the blueline. An injury to Spezza or Karlsson, and the Sens are finished (as last January sans Spezza showed). And if they continue to play well, arguably they don’t need improvement at the trade deadline.
Anyway, Murray has yet to make a good deadline or late season trade that has ‘added the missing piece of the puzzle’ (even when the player acquired, such as Matt Cullen, played well for the team in the play-offs), so, if anything, the Sens would be better off if he didn’t make a move than if he did.
You could say that the team’s big move to ‘add a piece for the play-offs’ was getting Turris from the Coyotes for Rundblad and a pick.
However, if Murray can move a player soon to become an unrestricted free agent (say, Kuba) to another team in return for a player with an expiring contract, that wouldn’t be too bad, since he at least wouldn’t be giving up the team’s prospects and picks.
Present adversity is also a training ground for future success. The Sens have won 10 of their last 13 games because of what they learned from the experience of struggling during the preceding 32 (their record was 14-14-4), and a hard-fought first-round play-off defeat (which would be ‘blooding’ them as much as a winning a play-off series would) could be a better lesson than an easy first-round victory and sweep in the second round at the hands of a superior team.
Why is everybody so scared?
We should give BM a little more credit. He knows this team is different from years past when they thought (too optimistically) that they were contenders. He knows he has a young team, with good young players and good young prospects. He’s not going to make a trade that would mortgage the future for a aging veteran that won’t contribute to our future success.
Let’s not panic too much, and trust the guy! He’s made some shrewd moves in the past calendar year!
by I Still Miss Hossa!!! on Jan 13, 2012 3:05 PM EST reply actions
Nope.
Credit for what exactly?
He’s had the reigns since 2007.
I find it hilarious that the Murrays were screaing the mantra of “puck-moving defensemen” when we had Corvo, who was run out of town by Lee Versage and had at least three 30-point+ back then.
So he turned that into a slower “D” and patched and so on. Then, when that didn’t work he did a half-blow up bu still did facepalm-inducing stuff like signing Phillips to a 3-year deal out of some kind of wistful loyalty. And now that we’re in a playoff position we’re hearing through that mediot Tim Baines that Noesen and Puempel could be on the table. What? WE ARE NOT A CONTENDER PEOPLE. This team isn’t going to win three rounds and a finals on top of three rounds. Why are we dumping prospects so soon?
BE PATIENT. I’ll give Murray credit when:
1)He calms down and lets the team go at its own pace
2)He moves out vets for picks and youth
3)He lets beloved vets go and replaced them with more youth.
4)He lets the NEW core take the team forward.
As for now, this looks more like a glorified patch-up job from within than a rebuild.
by Quizzical Quorum on Jan 15, 2012 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
I hear ya
I think we can agree that he’s made his mistakes and his fair share of bad decisions. All I’m saying is that he is responsible for the team as we see it today, and a lot of those draft picks are from him as well.
All I’m saying is let’s just wait and see, he might even end up doing nothing, which I would love personally!
by I Still Miss Hossa!!! on Jan 17, 2012 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
If not now, when?
We changed dramatically half way through last year and continued into the TC and then some more (Turris). And now we are suddenly afraid of changes because what, we’d won some games and confound our critics?
So, we don’t want bad changes, only ones that work out, but that’s obvious! I am very, very sure that’s what the Sens management wants too.
If a trade presents itself and it fits the plan going forward, do it. We can’t suddenly be paralyzed by fear of change. Don’t forget it was fear of changes that led to our current demise of having to rebuild. A one player or two changes now is nothing compared to the massive personnel changes of less than a year ago, remember that? And Murray has more than you and I combined at stake in any changes.
Having said that, Murray may or may not trade. He’s merely telling the other GMs, “I am listening. Make me an offer I can’t refuse.” Let’s keep an open mind.
I'm certainly not advocating no changes...
Though I can see how I’m sometimes interpretted that way, because I get nervous about trade talk. I get nervous because the big trade talk this time of year is always centred around UFAs. If we pick up a UFA at the deadline, I will really lose it. Years of picking up UFAs at the deadline has proved it to be a consistent waste of our assets.
After the Turris trade, I spent about a day fuming about how great Rundblad is supposed to become, but after that I became a big advocate for the deal. If we can do a similar move again, I’ll probably get similarly agitated followed by understanding. I love the idea of bringing in someone 21-25 who can play now, but we can keep long term. And if we have to give up a prospect for it, well if the value is roughly even, I’ll get over it. If we trade, say, Zibanejad, I will flip out for a while. But if we bring in a 21 year old with that trade who can play at an NHL level now and is a fairly even deal in terms of talent, I’ll decide I love the trade within the week.
The big scary language to me in the last interview wasn’t Murray talking about bringing a forward in. He always says that. And sometimes it even works really well (Turris). The big scary language was when he referred, specifically, to “helping our veterens out” with a trade. To me, this implies the idea of bringing in “veteren leadership,” that big deadline day buzzword. This has NEVER worked for the Senators, and is the complete wrong direction to pull us in at this point in team development.
As long as that’s the direction we’re going in, trade however much Murray wans, and I’ll be happy.
by spez_dispenser on Jan 13, 2012 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
Same here, I was a Rundblad advocate, but Turris, well, he's done well.
My sense is that in the past, we traded differently in that we felt we had the pieces to contend for the cup and just needed to add the odd veterans for the push. Now, the thinking is add for the future and not sacrifice long term for any short term, iffy gains. I’ll be very surprise if Murray get off that train.
by whatsinaname on Jan 13, 2012 6:05 PM EST up reply actions
I would be surprised and I wouldn't.
It just seems like such the obviously wrong direction, and after doing so much right. I’ve just seen the wrong move pulled one to many times not to get a little twitchy. And it’s still the use of the phrase (and I’m quoting from memory, so I may be messing it up) “help our veterens out” that haunts me.
Reply fail.
In response to whatsinaname above. I suppose I was due for one of these.
by spez_dispenser on Jan 13, 2012 6:23 PM EST up reply actions
I'd welcome an upgrade!
Yes, it depends on the price, but if we got a solid forward or defenceman (even if it were a rental), then great! As long as we’re not giving up a major piece of the farm.
I know lots of people are against making a deadline move, but look at it this way. A move might not be about making us a cup contender. It might act as insurance for making the playoffs. We’re in a good spot right now, but other teams will load up for a playoff push. So we aren’t anywhere close to being safe yet. We should go for it if possible.
I personally don’t want to see us miss the playoffs because we refused to part with a 3rd round pick.
who have we ever unloaded that was ever such a loss when picking up a UFA
Gleason and Laich maybe, and then a bunch of nobody’s who did not light the world on fire. Eaves . . .Who? We would surely have neen a cup contender had he not been traded away. If all the other teams are loading up for the playoffs, unless you think there is nothing out there worth having, why take a kinfe to a gunfight. Stone is found money, DaCosta is almost a point a game player in Bingo, Boro is apparently close to NHL ready, whatever that means. It’s not like he will deplete the entire prospect pool with one trade.
Chris Kelly lol
Just kidding. I honestly can’t think of anybody! I just don’t know what forward he would get that would be worth giving up a prospect for. Any ideas?
by I Still Miss Hossa!!! on Jan 14, 2012 4:28 PM EST reply actions
Radim Vrbata?
I realize he’s over the hill, but he’s already got 20 goals.
Also, I know he’d cost a lot, but Jeff Carter could use a change of scenery.
Loui Eriksson is a skilled, two-way forward that would fit in nice. However, Dallas is not keen on giving him up.
Bobby Ryan is a good young forward with HIGH upside, and, coincidentally, has astronomical trade value.
Jamie McGinn is a solid, early to mid-twenties winger that is probably underappreciated in SJ.
Patience
Although I like your enthusiasm, I caution you or anyone else who thinks that being a playoff contender at this time of the year means that the rebuild is done.
As the Green Bay Packers found out, a winning streak only means that they won some games… They were not present when it really counted which means that they were not prepared.
The Sens have shown vast improvement, and it’s exciting to watch… and it is not even nearly there yet. I see a team that is one injury away from oblivion, with precious little depth in nets.
Add to that a system that seems to be working well in the regular season, which resembles four forwards, one dman and a goalie who is standing on his head, and we have a team in transition.
When Murray announced that he wants to add a top six forward to this team, I reacted, because although it’s his job to kick the tires, I’d rather he do that quietly, so as to not toy around with the sometimes fragile egos of players who are under pressure to increase their ice time.
If any moves need to be done, I’d rather see a solid backup goalie and a defensive shutdown dman added to the mix, rather than another top six forward. Anderson will not continue to have such a lofty GAA.
I believe that the top six forward situation will be solidly in place by next year if we are just patient and let these guys play. With the new additions mentioned that are coming, it will be mightly hard to break into the top six of this team next year.
Patience will get it done.
Wait...what?
I am not sure what season you have been watching but Anderson has hardly been standing on his head. It is only since Christmas that he has shown even a glimmer of the goalie he was last year. Michalek and Karlsson have both been out and it has not caused us much grief. We are not one injury away from oblivion and anyway you cant spend your season so conservativly in case someone goes down. If depth at goalie is a problem, trade for a legit backup during the playoffs, AA is a disaster this year.
I am not sure where the Packer analogy comes from. If lack of preparation is the issue, that has nothing to do with depth or talent, that is a coaching issue.
As to the way he kicks the tires,Bryan Murray is doing it right, he is stating publicly that he thinks his team and players are legit and that he wants to see how good they are by ensuring they get into the playoffs. Lets make no mistake about it, every player on that team wants to be in the playoffs, and if there is a single player on the team that thinks it is more important for him to have more ice time than for his team to succeed in the playoffs or has so fragile an ego that he looks negativly on team improvement and only how it affects him, he needs to be rooted out, tied naked to the four corners of the goal and have pucks shot at him for an hour.
As to difficulty breaking into the top six….I don’t understand your point at all. You want it to be near impossible to break into the top six on your team, that means you have a great top six. Zbad and Silfverberg and the player currently on the top six have no golden ticket to the top six next year or any year. If they don’t make it they go for further development or are used as assetts to trade for need.
Only in Ottawa would we have people more excited about a slow rebuilding team than one that is exceeding expectations and looks to be playoff ready.
I am in agreement.....besides, when is having too many top 6 an issue?
We should not be afraid of getter better sooner, rather than later. How and at what price, we may or may not find out since there is no guarantee there will be a trade.
by whatsinaname on Jan 16, 2012 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
Only if the cost is too high
I don’t have a problem having too many top six forwards unless the cost to acquire them is too high.
Our past history has proven that rentals are not worth our draft picks, and the kinds of players we’ve been talking about like Anaheim’s are going to go to the highest bidder… which means overpayment.
Just imagine the conversation about Ryan or Perry. “OK we’ll take Karlsson and Z’jad and your 1st round pick,” or “Z’jad and your 1st round pick for the next two years”.
I’m just saying that we have the horses to be a really good team by next year if we don’t pull a Toronto Maple Leaf move and give away the farm trying to get better right now in the short run. In the end, I trust that BM will do the right thing.
Every playoff team loads up
The cost vs.reward theory cannot be applied to loading up for the playoffs. It is a gamble, flat out. We are not talking about an off season trade where both GM’s are trading players and hoping to come out on top. A GM loading up for the playoffs knows what they are getting an it is not a trade they would ever make in the off season. It is usually a bloated contract on a still effective vet or an expiring contract from a team that wants money off the books. The team on the other end is getting a prospect or a draft pick. We are not trading apples for apples and the GM on the playoff bound team is trading to get someone who can win a Cup. They are far less concerned about the future than the next 16 wins. The only tema who the reload is “worth it” for is the team that wins the Stanley Cup. For all the rest of them, the trade was not “worth it” but that is gambling for you.

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