Silver Nuggets: Media and the Senators; Brian Lee's last chance
by Adnan on Jul 26, 2011 1:00 PM EDT
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PrintFor the second day in a row, there will be a link to an article on Brian Lee. Is this a brand new record? I would have to guess so. It really will be an interesting season for Lee, in the last year of his contract, he really has to have a solid season to cement his place in the organisation.
Here are today's links:
- Why do writers who likely don't follow the Senators at all, insist on giving seemingly expert opinion on the club? Back when The Hockey News couldn't fathom why the Sens weren't active in free agency, wasn't it obvious months in advance that would be the case? In a weak free agent market, the Sens did well not to spend like the Florida Panthers. Hopefully the Senators draft picks work out, but if not, it's still no reason to hand out silly contracts. (The 6th Sens)
- Here is a listing of the top 25 centres in the NHL, apparently Jason Spezza isn't one of them. But, Dave Bolland, David Backes, Jordan Staal are. If we are penalising players for down years, why is Vincent Lecavalier (54 points in 65 games) at #11, but Spezza (57 points in 62 games) not in the top 25. If penalising players for injury shortened seasons, then why is Sidney Crosby #1? (Yahoo!)
- Zenon Konopka is really happy to be playing in a city where hockey is #1. He is also looking forward to travelling to Toronto and Buffalo three times a year, which are both close to his home in Niagara-on-the-Lake. (St. Catherines Standard)
- With Konopka signed, this likely will make Matt Carkner expendable around training camp. Can Brian Lee nail down a spot this season or will he be let go at the end of the season? Carkner likely has higher trade value than Lee right now, while Lee still probably has a higher upside. For this reason, it would make more sense to keep Lee. (Senshot)
- Everyone's favourite defenceman, Erik Karlsson, is now on twitter. What we learned? He lost in straight sets in tennis to Jarkko Ruutu, and it is Karlsson's girlfriend's birthday today. Judging from his opinion on Canadian and Swedish girls from back when he was drafted, I can only assume she is Swedish. Also, if he is playing tennis, his thigh injury should be fine now! (Erik Karlsson)
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Keep Carkner!
Maybe it’s sentimentality because my wife is from Winchester, or maybe I’m just a sucker for a good story… but I say keep Carkner!
Sure, we’ve got Kenopka, Neil & Z.Smith… but let’s face it; nobody takes on the league’s heavyweights quite like Matt does.
He’s good in the room, good in the community, and kicks major ass. This is a guy you want on your team, when there are this many young guys!
To become old and wise, you must first be young and stupid. - old army proverb
You're right on, especially that last part
I’m not sure that Konopka’s signing has made Carkner expendable, and there’s no denying that he seems like a great guy on the ice, in the dressing room, and in the community.
However, there’s limited room on any blue line, and stellar training camps from Rundblad and/or Cowen might just make it so there is little choice but to clear room on the blue line. Unfortunately, I think Carkner is the foremost candidate if that’s to be done.
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by Peter Raaymakers on Jul 26, 2011 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Absolutely
Don’t think it makes Carkner expendable.
You can have a toughie heavyweight up front and one on D. Both are lower tier guys anyway (bottom six F, bottom pair D). We aren’t going to be a playoff team, we may as well beat em in the alleys. Give the home crowd a show. Protect the youth.
Lee still is a RFA after the year, so if he plays and looks good (not at the expense of Carkner, or guys like Cowen/Rundblad, but maybe Kuba?), he will have value next year.
Spezza, out of the top 25, no harm or foul. One guy’s assessment. Spezza was great post-fire sale, but garbage pre-injury against the Pens. Backes was a power forward monster last year, and Bolland has been big in the playoffs, which is fresh in the memories of every one making these lists.
In 2006-2008, Spezza would be overrated somewhat on these lists, maybe even put high in the top 10. No worries if he is underrated after a down year.
by DontfeedtheBelak on Jul 26, 2011 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Spezza Top 25.
Well, for Spezza I’d put him top 20 right now, maybe 25.
Problem is he get injured almost yearly, has a persistent bad back and not a lot of supporting cast. He also tends to pad his stats around weak sisters (multi-points against Atlanta, Islanders, Philly team not WEAK but in a playoff spot, IE no pressure games).
I’d go for top 10…Crosby, Toews, Malkin (healthy), Backstrom, Sedin, Getzlaf, Stamkos, Staal, Kesler, Richards, Thornton…then you get guys like Vinny. He plays a fast, two-way game and has led his team to a Cup. Kopitar’s cap hit isn’t too high and he gets up there. Zetterberg Datsyuk are beasts.
Unfortunately, until Spezza shows he can stay healthy for an 82 game season, produce at close to a point a game clip or more AND increase his takeaways and defensive presence he’s never going to get any respect. Spezza really needs to have an “Alfie/Crosby” year where he takes the team on his back, plays through injury/or injury-free and then carries the team through the post-sesaon as well.
But…it might not be a bad thing for Spezza to be discounted, waiting in the weeds and all that.
by Quizzical Quorum on Jul 26, 2011 1:36 PM EDT reply actions
Okay but
How many Alfie/Crosby years have Jordan Staal, David Backes, Dave Bolland, Tomas Plekanec, Jeff Carter, etc. have had?
Lecavalier may have won a cup but Spezza has far better career statistics, not that they are comparing careers.
An Ottawa Senators supporter in Toronto, Ontario. I am cool like that.
They also gave the #1 spot to a dude who spent the better part of the year injured.
But penalized others for the same reason.
It’s not a well written or justified article. It’s just padding in the slow summer season.
Mon dieu
On a non-related subject. Is it me or is the Summer extra slow? Maybe I am just anxious to see how Filatov plays?
by Bikini Cowboy on Jul 26, 2011 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't get how one "pads his stats"
Are you suggesting that he should not try as hard against weaker teams? Or are you suggesting that the other centers who have multi-point games against weaker teams somehow are not “padding” theirs?
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Spezza
had every chance to be that great player pre Dec. 26th when the season still mattered.
He would be a top center (top 10, even) if he played the whole year like he did, when the games no longer counted, or like in 2006, 2007, or 2008 (up until the playoffs).
by DontfeedtheBelak on Jul 26, 2011 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
That has nothing to do with whether he "padded" his stats.
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Maybe not in 'good versus weak' team sense
but in the sense that his good play did come in the no pressure situation where games no longer mattered, post-firesale.
He did have 20 points in 32 games pre injury (and 17 in his first 31, considering he had 3 points in the pens game), pre firesale, when the team was still hopeful of trying to put something together, and were just a few points out of a playoff spot.
He seemed to pad his stats in this regard (season matters games versus season is a writeoff games). A different version of the ‘no pressure’ games described above.
by DontfeedtheBelak on Jul 26, 2011 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok, then that argument can be made for one season....
given the team has been in the playoffs for all but 2 years since he started his career, and in contention for the playoffs in all but last season. So is last year an anomaly or are the other 7 season’s he has played the anomaly?
In 2 out of the last 3 seasons
we missed the playoffs and were essentially also rans by the half way point.
In the third season (2009-2010), Spezza came alive in the second half (again, post-injury) but struggled mightily in the beginning, and inspired articles like this
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/297365-a-force-united-no-more-jason-spezza-is-paying-the-price
He has been a point a game player for his career but that is buoyed by his success and dominance with Heatley and Alfredsson, esp 2006-2008 when I think he was a near elite center, or at least playmaker.
No one is saying Dave Bolland 2011 or David Backes 2011 is better than Spezza 2006-2008. I certainly am not. The Spezza of the last few years, however, has fallen in production, consistency, and ‘star’ status, though he did show signs of leadership and maturity in the second half this year.
by DontfeedtheBelak on Jul 26, 2011 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
We were in contention all but last year....
the end result was missing in 2 of the last 3, but he’s played 8 seasons and being judged on one season for the purposes of ‘increased production one the season is a writeoff’
You're all over the place...
So Spezza loses Heatley and his numbers drop, but Bolland plays with Kane and/or Toews and that gets ignored. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills here!
by Pmoron on Jul 26, 2011 4:08 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
When did Bolland
play with Toews or Kane, in your eyes?
Last season he played largely with Bickell/Pisani,
Bickell/Hossa, and Bickell/Brouwer (top 3 line combos).
The season before he did play with Byfuglien and Kane, but still,
no Toews. Makes sense, they are both centers.
by DontfeedtheBelak on Jul 26, 2011 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re right with Toews, however I remember him playing with Kane during the playoffs. Not all the time obviously, but regardless he’s playing with far better players.
As far as Spezza playing better once the season was long gone, I would say had more to do with picking up Anderson than any reduction in pressure. It’s almost impossible to underestimate the effect a confident and skilled goalie has on the psyche of the team.
by Pmoron on Jul 26, 2011 4:41 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Perhaps
but he still was mediocre to average in the first halfs of 2009, 2010, and 2011. He turned it up in each year, to end with a respectable ~70 point pace.
But these three seasons fail to compare to the video game cover boy/NHL playoff tied for leading scorer/90 point pace/CASH line years. For all the talk of his improved two way play, we heard that before in 2007 and post injury return in 2010. I do think he did show some leadership this year that he didn’t before, but nothing to the extent that naming David Backes over him should be considered a crime.
by DontfeedtheBelak on Jul 26, 2011 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
You can't put a (healthy) Crosby & Malkin in your top 10...
… and then use Spezza’s health as a reason to justify his exclusion.
-Spezza actually produces at over a PPG clip (526GP, 532P) & PPG in Playoffs (46GP & 46P)
-Thornton, Getzlaf & B.Richards were all worse in Giveaways than Spezza.
-B.Richards, Sedin, Carter & Stamkos, Getzlaf, Lecavallier & Malkin all had fewer takeaways.
-Spezza also spent 113:37 in short handed TOI with Staal, Thornton, Carter, Datsyuk, Getzlaf. Stamkos, B.Richards, Crosby, Lecavallier, Sedin & Malkin playing fewer or none.
- I would also like it if you could provide a link to see the stats that you are referencing for all of Spezza’s multi point games over the past 3 or 4 seasons that indicate he pads his stats vs the ‘weak sisters’ during meaningless games. It stands to reason that he would have higher stats vs weaker teams because they are just that, but I don’t follow the logic that scoring more in games that mean less is a flaw one would associate with any player. Does that not indicate that that a player is trying just as hard in meaningless games they would in meaningful games while others play is tailing off?
Not that I’m saying he belongs in the top 10 with the season he had last year, but I see no reason he wouldn’t be arguably among the top 10-15, certainly no reason to justify his exclusion from the top 25.
I'd be interested in hearing whether or not you can back that up statistically
I’m not denying your statement that he feasts on weaker teams much more than he does better teams, but I’d be interested in seeing a statistical breakdown of it.
I’m also not sure how worthwhile it is… I mean, isn’t it obvious that players put up more points against weaker teams than they do against better ones? Isn’t that why the weaker teams are weaker and the better ones better? I suppose if you can show Spezza’s proportions are significantly different than those of other top centremen you could make a good argument, but that’d be quite an undertaking!
As for injuries, Spezza played 82 games just two seasons ago. And I don’t know if you can use it as a knock against him, can you?
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by Peter Raaymakers on Jul 26, 2011 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
may i just point out
(not to you but to this whole discussion) that WE were the weaker team almost all season? we were dead last… ipso facto spezza was ALWAYS feasting on better teams, yes?
This.
I wondered about that as soon as I read the “weaker teams” argument. Shouldn’t it be said that given we sucked, Spezza was always up against the #1 D of the opposing teams?
I think you can use injuries as a knock against him. He’s been out significant periods the last two seasons and has had long stretches where he’s clearly playing injured, which hurts his effectiveness.
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I think the only argument against that is that most players play injured at some point in the season
I don’t know if Spezza’s unique in that regard. We always hear about injuries that guys played through once their teams are eliminated. Should Heatley’s bad wrist this year be considered a knock against him, for example? I don’t know. This is one of those gray areas, especially in a sport that encourages machismo.
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But Spezz seems to have some recurring problems, which is difficult. It doesn’t seem any more to be a one-off injury. It seems like it will continue to haunt him and affect his performance, and thus would lower his value.
Kinda like Michalek.
Not to say I don’t think Spezza should have been on the list — I think he should be ahead of at least a couple of guys there.
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I guess
I know he’s had back issues, but I didn’t feel like his shoulder injury last year was an example of a recurring injury, you know? But I’m really, really skeptical when it comes to the idea of “injury prone.” I don’t think there’s such a thing.
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Injuries maybe not a factor?
The new Puck Daddy list of right wingers includes Hemsky at 12, so I don’t think injuries are really playing much of a role. I think Spezza is just being undervalued.
Silver Seven: the Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators blogs.
Though he's going to be playing with some unproven wingers, especially if it's Filatov and not Michalek
I can understand the believe that most of those centers will put up more points than him because they’re around more proven talent.
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I think he'll prove everyone wrong next year...
If he lands Butler and Filatov, then we’re talking about a lot of sniping skill there on his wings. Sure, it’s not proven skill, which obviously affects this list, but still. We all know what a shot BB has, and there’s gotta be a reason Filatov went 6th overall, so throw a kick-ass playmaker like Spezza in between them, and I think that line will surprise a lot of people, and scare the hell out of a lot of defensemen.
To become old and wise, you must first be young and stupid. - old army proverb
I love that line's potential
But I think they’ll need to produce a lot before they start making believers. And honestly, I expect Michalek to start out there. I just can’t see Filatov getting the start, unless he blows the team away at camp.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
Great point, and probably a huge reason Spezza wouldn't make the list.
Silver Seven: the Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators blogs.
Hypocrite
I find most just follow what others are saying without forming their own opinions. Remember last summer with the Trade Spezza speculation. Fans from other teams all wanted him as a first or second center but would only give out peanuts or several peanuts for him saying that he was not elite. My shut-up reply was: if he sucks so much then why do you and 20 other teams want him?
My opinion is he is around the 15th mark in centermen. He is a point a game player and he was centering for three years the most offensive line in all of hockey (pizza line).
Whoa, whoa, whoa
Karlsson’s not MY favorite defenseman!
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Who is?
Brian Lee?
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by Peter Raaymakers on Jul 26, 2011 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd put Spezza 16-18
I’d take him over anyone outside of the top 15 right now (other than Kopitar – not sure why he’s so low). If he picks up where he left off when the season starts, he could end up being a top 10 centre in this league again, ahead of Lecavalier, Richards, etc.
Experts my ass
Sometimes it is just incredible who passes as an NHL expert. For instance Mike Milbury is supposed to be an expert. I would not put him in charge of my nephew’s Mosquito team let alone give him any authority over an NHL team.
So who cares what these experts think about Spezza’s ranking? Hopefully Spez makes these experts eat a large portion of crow this year.
And let’s keep Carkner. We need all the bone jarring dmen we can get our hands on.
Karlsson although he does some exciting stuff sometimes, is not even close to being my favourite dman…
These same experts
analysts, commentators, hockey pool gurus, etc etc,
put Spezza in the top 10 centers, easy, maybe even top 5,
after 2006, 2007, and 2008 seasons. Truth was, he probably was slightly overrated back then, thanks to the career years of Alfredsson and Heatley.
He had a down year. The whole team was horrible. He looked good, when the season didn’t matter, which give hope to us for the future, but really wasn’t on the radar of the teams that matter to the media (playoff teams, winning teams, teams in the hunt).
by DontfeedtheBelak on Jul 26, 2011 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you have any links supporting this statement?
I can’t recall a single listing putting Spezza among the league’s top ten or five centremen.
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by Peter Raaymakers on Jul 26, 2011 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/hnic/coach.html
Though the video didn’t work on this link perhaps some one has it on youtube. Cherry was pro Spezza (and Crosby) for Turin, pre Turin.
Called him one of the best playmakers/playmaking centers in the game. Is that considered a top 10 center?
http://2ksports.com/news/nhl2k8/34
Isn’t this the sort of thing that is reserved for top 10 centers?
http://www.faceoff-factor.com/7nhl/329/2007-08-fantasy-rankings-centers
http://www.tsn.ca/fantasy_news/feature/?ID=11657
http://www.aolnews.com/2009/07/27/nhls-top-50-jason-spezza-no-34/
listed as the 13th center (and 34th overall player) after 2009. Where did you think he would have ranked in after 2006, 2007, or 2008? As per the author:
His current mark of .668 assists-per-game puts him right between San Jose’s Joe Thornton (.690) and Detroit’s Pavel Datsyuk (.667) among active players. That’s pretty strong company. Had his numbers not taken a rather large dip this past season I would have had him significantly higher.
Can you find me a list that omitted him from a top 10 center man position written in the summers of 2006, 2007 or 2008?
And did it have a bunch of whining from mortified Sens fans (at that time, I would have chimed into this totally justified pool)?
by DontfeedtheBelak on Jul 26, 2011 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Two of those are fantasy rankings, not NHL rankings
The discussion is not whether Spezza is a top-10 fantasy center. The cover of NHL 2K8 is not an expert’s list of top centers. The last article you cite doesn’t even meet your own criteria of being from 2006, ’07, or ’08, and is completely irrelevant to the discussion because of that fact.
Also, Peter doesn’t need to provide a list omitting Spezza from the top 10. You are the one who made the claim that
“These same experts[,] analysts, commentators, hockey pool gurus, etc etc, put Spezza in the top 10 centers, easy, maybe even top 5, after 2006, 2007, and 2008 seasons.”
The burden of proof is on the person who makes the claims. Asking someone else to disprove your unsupported claim is asinine and argumentative.
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Don Cherry
isn’t an expert, relative to Puck Daddy?
Adam Gretz isn’t an expert, relative to Puck Daddy?
The last article you cite doesn’t even meet your own criteria of being from 2006, ’07, or ’08,
Um, he says that after 2009, he would rank Spezza 13th after a dropoff year and would have ranked him higher without that dropoff. Significantly higher.
Dropoff season = 13th; 2006-2008 production seasons = considerably higher.
Rather simple.
Hockey cover a video game = >>>> 25th best center in the game.
Do you think Dave Bolland is up for a video game cover?
I am asking you if you have any links saying Spezza wasn’t a top 10 center from 2006-2008. I have found exactly none.
by DontfeedtheBelak on Jul 26, 2011 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Once again, you refuse to actually adress any of the points
1) Don Cherry isn’t an expert
No one said he wasn’t. More importantly, if Don Cherry doesn’t say the words, “Spezza is a top 10 center in the NHL” in the segment, then it does not meet your criteria of a list of top 10 centers with Spezza in it.
2) Adam Gretz isn’t an expert
No one said he wasn’t.
3) Dropoff season = 13th; 2006-2008 production seasons = considerably higher.
Irrelevant. You stated, specifically, that articles from 2006-08 put Spezza in the top 10. Once again, your own criteria are the seasons 2006, 2007, 2008. You are citing an article from 2009.
4) Do you think Dave Bolland is up for a video game cover?
Irrelevant. Video game covers do not meet your criteria of lists of top 10 NHL centers, as they are covers, and not comparative lists.
5) I am asking you if you have any links saying Spezza wasn’t a top 10 center from 2006-2008. I have found exactly none.
Once again, irrelevant. The claim here is not that Spezza was omitted from any lists, it’s that he was included in them. You’re the one that made the claim. Peter asked for proof. You have found exactly none.
I’m going to be as clear as I can here: DO NOT REPLY TO THIS COMMENT AND DEBATE THE ABOVE POINTS. I have no interest in debating with you when you have repeatedly shown you refuse to acknowledge salient counterarguments, and I am sure no one else wants to read such a pointless argument either.
If your reply is not something like, “Yes, here are some actual NHL ranking articles from 2006-08 that illustrate what I was saying” or “No, I couldn’t find anything in writing that said what I claimed about Spezza, but I think he was highly regarded across the league at that time, as shown by things like his video game cover” then do not post it, and move on to another comment.
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Once again, your own criteria are the seasons 2006, 2007, 2008
Are you asinine or just an ass?
where did I say the article had to be written in 2006-2008? Its about the seasons he had in 2006-2008; some one can write an article tomorrow, and it would still be legit.
you have repeatedly shown you refuse to acknowledge salient counterarguments
hypocrite. And Liar.
by DontfeedtheBelak on Jul 26, 2011 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions
analysts, commentators, hockey pool gurus, etc etc,
put Spezza in the top 10 centers, easy, maybe even top 5,
after 2006, 2007, and 2008 seasons.
There is a strong implication there that these articles were written post-06/07/08. As in, written 2006-2008.
you have repeatedly shown you refuse to acknowledge salient counterarguments
hypocrite. And Liar.
His point is that you’ve provided no proof for your argument. You argue that there is circumstantial proof. He requires more than that. There’s no hypocrisy, especially when his argument is simply that your argument is invalid.
Also
I did post
These same experts analysts, commentators, hockey pool gurus, etc etc, put Spezza in the top 10 centers, easy, maybe even top 5, after 2006, 2007, and 2008 seasons
To which Peter replied
Do you have any links supporting this statement? I can’t recall a single listing putting Spezza among the league’s top ten or five centremen
He asked for any links supporting my statement.
The two fantasy sports links fall in line.
As Cherry’s ‘Spezza for Turin’ rant sure counts, even if he didn’t cite where in the top few centers (or who the others were).
As does Gretz’s article, as my statement said that Spezza would have been placed in the top 10 after the seasons, and makes no mention of when the article would have been written. An article could be written tomorrow about Spezza’s run in those years. It would still be about where he is relative to other Cs, in those years.
by DontfeedtheBelak on Jul 26, 2011 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions
This resulted in a big argument, which is weird.
I agree with Dontfeedthebelak that Spezza was considered a Top 10 centre in the league around 2006/2007. Even if it wasn’t written down anywhere, I’m sure it was true.
Yes, DFTB exagerrated his claim by saying “these same experts” and tried to swing the burden of proof onto Peter at the end there for some reason, but it doesn’t mean that the majority of the hockey world did not consider Jason Spezza a top 10 centre back then.
DTFB – just a note that you should try to tone down your argumentativeness. It often seems to stir up trouble when what you’re trying to make is an acceptable point (like this thread). Peter was asking for a source, turning it around on him to find a source to the contrary (which is really weird — can you imagine a prosecutor saying “I don’t need to find a law that says that was illegal. You find me one that says it isn’t!”). Your point was valid, you just need to show some tact in stating it.
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The weirdest part is that I agree with him
I think you’d be hard-pressed to find someone who didn’t feel Spezza was a top-10 guy, especially with the dominance of the Pizza Line during the Cup run.
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Why is everyone pushing to get rid of 'D' men
@ best we may have 8 or 9 NHL calibre defensemen, @ worst 6. We have D-men that we can send down to the AHL, or sit in the press box, it isn’t like we need cap space. I agree that priority should be given to developing the young talent, but that is no reason to send out all of our depth. It is a long year. Young players on young teams struggle and sometimes benefit from a few games in the press box. Not to mention the potential for injuries.
I would suggest that we hang onto all of our D-men and see how the season shakes out, then ‘thin the herd’ based on what we can pick up for some depth D @ the trade deadline.
Absolutely right!
This is probably the biggest reason why nothing’s been done yet: Training camp will go a long way in determining who is NHL ready and who isn’t. Right now, based on last season, Matt Carkner is probably fourth or fifth on our depth chart among defencemen.
Unless that changes in training camp, he won’t be traded.
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by Peter Raaymakers on Jul 26, 2011 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I would rather the Senators keep Carkner for the long haul, if they can.
They could always use a 7th defenceman, if he can’t wrestle a spot from the bottom pair from somebody else (or because guys like Kuba, Gonchar, or Phillips are too expensive to sit), and I think Carks is pretty dependable as a fill-in when someone gets hurt.
If at the end of the year he thinks he can get a regular gig on another team, I wish him the best.
Sure
8 NHL ready D is great. And Carkner fills out a specific role as an enforcer, to boot.
But with
Gonchar, Phillips, Karlsson, Lee, Kuba, and Carkner on one ways,
and prospects knocking on the door,
I think the lower tier guys should have to sweat it a bit for their spots.
I think (and for months now), much like a share of the people here, Kuba is just taking up useful ice time and space that could be devoted to developing a Rundblad or a Cowen (and here’s hoping, after a great camp, perhaps a Boroweicki, Wiercioch, or Gryba), but Kuba has no trade value. Carkner might.
If it was about who was useful to the team going forward, Carkner stays, easy. But looks like Kuba is the immovable object/pylon, which makes Carkner’s irresistable force/fists more of a movable commodity, when us fanboys are planning out rosters for years ahead.
by DontfeedtheBelak on Jul 26, 2011 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey Batman, what happens when an unstoppable fist meets an immovable contract?
by The Tif on Jul 26, 2011 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
His Batman voice was surprisingly good.
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by Peter Raaymakers on Jul 26, 2011 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Borowiecki, Wiercioch and Gryba are highly unlikely to merit spots coming out of training camp(purely based on performance, totally ignoring). Of course that is just my opinion, but based on the evidence they showed last season I don’t think I am going too far out on a limb. All of them will benefit from another year of development in the AHL if they don’t make the NHL roster.
That only leaves 8 guys with what I would call a realistic shot at a spot on the blueline. Considering injuries pretty much always happen there is really no need to move Carkner.
There’s also Lee Sweatt who had a pretty solid year last season and is probably hungry to prove himself.
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New Puck Daddy
This time ranking right-wingers. Another ‘honourable mention’ for the Sens.
I’m thinking now that they’re probably going to go through each position without putting a single Sen in the top 25. Maybe Anderson? That would seem to be our only chance left. (And that’s not a shot at Karlsson, I just don’t think he has the respect around the league yet – AS selection notwithstanding – to make it onto this kind of list.)
Pretty suspect, once again
Seeing Kessel at 22 makes me smile, but I know it’s not right. He’s better than that.
Still, I don’t see a way Alfredsson could have made the list. Jagr’s inclusion is silliness, but realistically, Alfredsson has almost as many question marks as Jagr does heading into the season.
After Alfie, who else from Ottawa could have made it; Butler? Neil? Not likely.
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by Peter Raaymakers on Jul 26, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
These are flawed lists for sure
The first name you read belongs to someone who hasn’t even played here in 3 years! Alfie belongs on that list for sure.
Anderson has to be in the top 25. If he’s not, that means that he’s one of the 5 worst starters in the NHL.
Amen brother... Amen!
To become old and wise, you must first be young and stupid. - old army proverb
Before people rage
They should note that it’s projecting for the next season.
I think that predicting Jagr will produce more than Alfie next season isn’t exactly a stretch.
by TheGuineaPig on Jul 26, 2011 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions
BLASHPEMY...
String him up and let’s BURN HIM!
To become old and wise, you must first be young and stupid. - old army proverb
I say we let him go!
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
by Mark Parisi on Jul 27, 2011 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions
We cannot, in good conscience
just let him walk around freely, after taking a shot at Alfie. There are standards and protocol that MUST be observed.
Alfie had surgery… we all know that he will be healthy next season, and get AT LEAST 164 points.
To become old and wise, you must first be young and stupid. - old army proverb
^^^ that was meant to be a reply, obviously... reply fail. my bad
To become old and wise, you must first be young and stupid. - old army proverb
Also moral fail
Careful or he’ll turn you into a newt!
by Pmoron on Jul 27, 2011 1:23 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yet ANOTHER last chance
How many last chances does Lee get? This is probably his 12th last chance… Granted he showed something playing in the free and loose games at the end of the year last year.
BUT… for me the biggest disappointment as he was so-called “developing” was that with his size, he never hit anyone. Alot of the rest of being a dman can be taught. and learned.. but a pussy remains a pussy.
I have watched him alot and over the years, for me he ranks as one of the easiest dmen to play against… not what we are after here… Trouble is he has no trade value right now, so like Kuba, we are stuck with him.
It is way beyond me what the conversation must have been that lead to the decision to resign him.
A new season brings on new hope and new “last chances”… here’s hoping a “new” Brian Lee shows up for training camp.
Brian Lee led all Senators defencemen in hits/game last season
So you are completely wrong about him being a “pussy”. Here are the stats:
1. Brian Lee 1.76 hits/game
2. Matt Carkner 1.42 hits/game
3. Chris Phillips 1.41 hits/game
4. Sergei Gonchar 0.81 hits/game
5. Erik Karlsson 0.43 hits/game
6. Filip Kuba 0.36 hits/game
Since they started playing him, and he played against the opposition’s top line with Phillips, he was no worse than Phillips.
An Ottawa Senators supporter in Toronto, Ontario. I am cool like that.
You've watched Brian Lee a lot over the years?
You realize the kid is 24, right? And that he’s only played 132 NHL games? I find it hard to believe you’ve really watched him that much.
Many of us have been disappointed in Brian Lee’s development. Personally, I’ve been disappointed that for every step he seems to take to move forward, he seems to take a step backward the next season. But he really hasn’t had that many chances; just because he played a bit in the NHL in his first pro season doesn’t mean he should have. He hasn’t even finished his second pro contract and already we’re shitting all over him? Give me a break. We may be stuck with him for now, and the team would perhaps be better off with a roster spot open for one of the other young defencemen, but he’s here. Deal with it, and be fair with your criticisms when you make them.
Finally, even if you choose to unfairly label players based on subjective impressions, do so in a respectful way. The word you chose to label Lee (which I won’t repeat) isn’t appropriate here, nor anywhere else, for that matter.
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by Peter Raaymakers on Jul 27, 2011 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
I think this is Lee's biggest problem.
Guy wasn’t sent down to the AHL when it would have helped him, and instead stayed in the press box for way too long. It’s unfortunate – he needs playing time to get better, and he’s not getting that.
He’s playing a simple game now, one that should pay off since he’s one of the biggest defencemen the Sens have.
I’m hopeful for Lee.
The thing is, though, that every time Lee's been sent to the AHL, it hasn't helped him
That’s always been my biggest red flag about the guy.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
Lee's vast improvement
A lot of people’s perception of Lee is that he is soft and after several tears of development, is going no where….not without justification. But he had simplified his game based on what we saw in the second half of last season. He now actually has a slapshot from the blue line! And he took out opposing players in the defensive zone quite effectively. He was much calmer and positionally correct. His minus 10 in 50 games was much better than the other d’men and was as much a victim as others of Ottawa’s poor goaltending.
I think he is in the cusp of becoming a solid d’man. We can use him: there will be injuries & trades during the season. Kuba will be gone latest end of season. This is possibly Carkner’s last season and might be traded at the trade dateline. And Goncha, it’s not inconceivable he might be trade too. (small % but who knows).
Guess we shall know more as the season unfolds.
I think this is wise. If Lee keeps up his game, he could be on the team next year.
Carkner could go, and Kuba is out. We don’t know that Cowen or Rundblad will make the team (Cowen would be jumping from Junior to NHL – I wouldn’t say he has a lot of AHL development time yet. The 10 playoffs games is good, but a whole season is a different beast).
But yeah – I don’t want us rushing people just to get them into the NHL. It just doesn’t make any sense!
Lee has to keep working on his shot
it’s one of the weakest parts of his game. But I agree that he was quite solid in the second half of last season.
Silver Seven: the Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators blogs.
Contracts aside...
Am I the only one who would be happiest seeing Rundblad and Cowen suit up next season…
Kuba and Lee be damned… eat their contracts and give the fans something they want to see.
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