Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Despite Relocation Drama, Coyotes Overcome Adversity

Silver Nuggets: Case for Butler on top line; Daugavins heading to Latvia for tryout

Bobby Butler would love to continue celebrating goals with Jason Spezza. (Photo by Phillip MacCallum/Getty Images)

It is currently 47 degrees with the humidex here in Toronto, and it is expected to rise to 49 later in the day. If it is going to be this disgusting, here's to a nice round 50! The 38 degrees of actual temperature is also only 0.4 degrees below the city's record of 38.4 degrees. Needless to say, I am talking the subway train to lunch.

Anyway, here are today's links:

Comment 56 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

If there wasn’t such a logjam of mediocre talent on the Sens’ blueline I’d be interested in seeing Campoli come back to Ottawa. Sens gave up a 1st round pick for him and got a 2nd rounder, so obviously he’s seen as having some value around the league. He’s still young and pretty cheap at around $2.5M. He’ll be a good a complimentary piece for a team.

He’ll probably sign in Florida for 4 years and $122.5M.

by Varada on Jul 21, 2011 1:35 PM EDT reply actions  

It's an interesting thought, and I think I agree

Unfortunately, short of trading Kuba and Lee to some naive, trusting team, I don’t see how we could make it happen.

Oh Captain, my Captain!

by AlfieGirl on Jul 21, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I disagree...

he is a mediocre D who seems to have little potential for future development….i agree that if it was between him and Lee or Kuba, then i would take him. But I wouldnt take him over anyone else that the Sens have right now.

by alfie4PM on Jul 21, 2011 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Did I suggest taking him over anyone else we have now?

I thought I was suggesting we take him back only after getting rid of both Lee and Kuba. Campoli may not get better, but he’s fairly dependable and not that old. And Murray’s shown that he can get a solid return trading him, so there’s that too.

Oh Captain, my Captain!

by AlfieGirl on Jul 21, 2011 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Campoli

as a young puckmoving, decent skating D, who can play the body and look reasonable in his own end, has value.

More so than Kuba or Lee. I am sure they would consider bringing him in, if it wasn’t for the dead weight one way commitments to those guys, and the albatross of Gonchar for two more years, as well as the presence of Rundblad and Cowen, one or both of which should be in the NHL soon.

Need flexibility going forward, can’t get bogged down with two many one ways in the backend, since we have Cowen, Rundblad, Karlsson, Gryba, Weircioch, and Borowiecki challenging for spots in the next 1-3 years.

by DontfeedtheBelak on Jul 21, 2011 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Campoli is pretty young, and has been leaned on too hard by terrible clubs. He looked ok in Chicago where he could play behind about 19 other defencemen. I could see him fitting in on a good team.

For Ottawa, the one huge advantage with Campoli that he no longer has was that he was dirt, dirt cheap for a long time. Perfect stopgap until all our prospects were ready.

by Varada on Jul 21, 2011 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

$30 mill a year?

That’s a fair price for Campoli. Or is it frontloaded? $60 in year 1, $60 in year 2, $1.5 in year 3 and $1 in year 4?

by The Tif on Jul 21, 2011 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I assume you've got some extra zeroes in there...

No one is worth $30M in one year. $3 maybe, but $30M?

Oh Captain, my Captain!

by AlfieGirl on Jul 21, 2011 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was making a joke about Varada's comment
He’ll probably sign in Florida for 4 years and $122.5M.

I assume it was a typo, but I was joking about front loaded contracts :)

by The Tif on Jul 21, 2011 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

You know...

The Islanders could almost make that deal under the cap.

by dzuunmod on Jul 21, 2011 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ah

Clearly I didn’t get it

Oh Captain, my Captain!

by AlfieGirl on Jul 21, 2011 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, was taking a poke at Florida

by Varada on Jul 21, 2011 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

He could be the A-Rod or Albert Pujols of your teams blueline, only $30mil a season.

by modsuperstar on Jul 21, 2011 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I doubt it, not that we'll ever know

I think he was just trading anyone he could and got a great offer for Campoli.

Oh Captain, my Captain!

by AlfieGirl on Jul 21, 2011 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can’t help but feel he was playing hardball with Chicago because he did play really well there after the trade. I recall plenty of raves about his play. Andy leveraged a good stretch run into a 4 year deal, I’m sure Campoli was trying use whatever leverage he could.

by modsuperstar on Jul 21, 2011 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I bet he was

The contract negotiations through last summer were pretty drawn out, likely because even then Campoli had demands that weren’t in line with what the team was willing to pay him. That’s probably why they only signed him to one year; they didn’t want to commit to him for longer than that because they weren’t sold on his abilities, and they weren’t looking to spend much more than the $1.4M he earned (which I still think was pretty inflated).

Campoli’s played some good hockey, but when a six-year veteran still hasn’t beaten his rookie season production, flags go up. I’m not surprised Ottawa traded him, nor am I surprised Chicago walked away from that contract.

by Peter Raaymakers on Jul 22, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Completely agree,

and what ever value he had established in the league took a hit when his turnover ended Chicago’s playoff run.

by anothersensfan on Jul 22, 2011 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't take him at that price

$2.5M is slightly above the average (or median) NHL salary and Campoli would only be a 5-6 d-man. He’s OK, but he can’t defend great, doesn’t play tough and has highly overrated offensive skills.

by Sports Fan! on Jul 21, 2011 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would

It’s drastically overpaying. Ottawa has two 5-6 d-men right now, and one (Carkner) is making $700k while the other (Lee) is making $800k. I think if you’re going to pay someone $2.5M a season, he’s got to be a 3-4 defenceman with some measure of consistency. I don’t see Campoli in that role.

by Peter Raaymakers on Jul 22, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

The 2.5 mil is a meaningless number.

Chicago went along with it as a pretext to releasing Campoli. Most likely it was Campoli’s camp that set the number as a starting point for future negotiations. Given that it’s about twice what he’s worth it’s more likely to hurt him than help him. How many third paring D-men get 2.5 mil?

Insert Jeff finger joke here.

by anothersensfan on Jul 22, 2011 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Disagree with one detail

Mediocre is not the right word. Excellent Defensement, just off-prime and age challenged (young and old).
As has been discussed, the crop is looking good, and as you mentioned, we have enough so-so short term fills.

by BD Rebuilders on Jul 21, 2011 1:52 PM EDT reply actions  

agreed

if we lacking a 4th to 6th/7th defenceman right now, Campoli would be worth paying, or even overpaying, short-term. But with Kuba, Lee, Carkner definitely bottom pair guys, and if Phillips and Gonchar regress (even though Gonch looked good those last couple of months), we have too many mediocre D as it is. Can’t clog up the system with the blue chip hopefuls (and nice finds in Boroweicki and Weircio+ch and Gryba) coming up soon.

by DontfeedtheBelak on Jul 21, 2011 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tryout?

Does anyone else find it funny the Rooster has to tryout for a team in Latvia? He’s a pretty solid player and I really can’t envision any Latvian club being stacked enough to turn him away.

by modsuperstar on Jul 21, 2011 4:06 PM EDT reply actions  

It's not Riga's decision

I think he’s going to attend the Sens training camp. If he doesn’t make the team, he’ll go to Latvia. It’s a shame, I don’t think he’ll make it, but I really liked his playing style and personality. Could have been Binghamton’s captain this year.

by Kangfish on Jul 21, 2011 4:23 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

It's a bit misleading to call Dinamo a "Latvian club"

I mean, it is, because the club is in a Latvian city, but the detail missing is that it’s the only Latvian club in the KHL. So, he wouldn’t be playing for peanuts, necessarily, with DR.

by dzuunmod on Jul 21, 2011 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Another important detail: It’s basically the Latvian national team.

On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
I hate Christian Ehrhoff because he should have been Tomas Kaberle.

by Ubiquitous on Jul 22, 2011 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

sad news

was a fan of Kaspars, ever since a year or two after he got drafted he looked really good (as an overage guy) in the OHL.

He has put up ~20 goals the past two AHL years playing on second/arguably third lines, and had 20 points in the Calder Cup run. Again, playing off the top line. He looked good on the PK too, and apparently was always a threat a man short (4 playoff shortie points).

I wonder if a one way contract could have kept him year. We are rebuilding anyway the next year or three, may as well get a bunch of the Condras and Greenings and Roosters to stay in the system for minimal investment. Worst case, whoever doesn’t play well, send him down. Best case, they all play like they deserve to be in the NHL, or at least play well enough to have value to exchange for a mid-level pick or prospect.

Now, if he signs over there, we lost an asset for nothing, like Wick.

by DontfeedtheBelak on Jul 21, 2011 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can we please not rehash the Wick debate?

I think everyone had more than enough of that last time.

Oh Captain, my Captain!

by AlfieGirl on Jul 21, 2011 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Did I hear "one-way" contract

from you? Of all people!!! All in good fun,

by whatsinaname on Jul 21, 2011 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Player development

This is the danger of drafting Euro players. In the case of Russian prospects, they have even more options than other prospects because the KHL is hot and heavy about signing their home-grown players.

Predraft communications with prospects is more important that ever now, and players who want instant NHL status and are unwilling to develop over here should be avoided or drafted in much later rounds. We don’t have much luck with Russian forwards… Mirnov, Kaigorodev, … and the list goes on.

This is the main reason why Canadian Junior hockey is the main source of prospects. There is nothing like a home grown Canadian prospect who is willing to go through the required development phase.

These home-grown players in alot of cases only consider the Euro leagues when their options over here run out, as was the case with Brendan Bell.

In the Sens case we are fortunate to have a family of Swedes in our organization and more scouts in Sweden than any other team in the NHL, so we have better luck with those players.

by Marvellous on Jul 22, 2011 8:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Don Cherry in da house!

An Ottawa Senators supporter in Toronto, Ontario. I am cool like that.

by Adnan on Jul 22, 2011 9:00 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I think Europeans that come over to play major junior are also pretty safe picks since they are demonstrating a commitment to try and make it to the NHL. Plus, if they have to go to the AHL they will not be shocked by the experience.

by DW19 on Jul 22, 2011 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

I don’t think that, for the reasons you mentioned, Kaspars is comparable to Kaigorodev, Nikitin, or others of similar ilk. He came to play a few seasons in the OHL and the AHL, and ‘paid his dues’

by DontfeedtheBelak on Jul 22, 2011 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

Can you blame them though?

For Canadians, playing in the NHL is the dream. For Russians, the KHL is now becoming their dream – closer to home, family etc.

While Canadian kids dream about scoring the GWG at Game 7 of the Stanley Cup Final, I wonder if Russian kids dream about scoring the GWG at the Gagarin Cup Final.

by The Tif on Jul 22, 2011 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

NYET!!!

Or do they dream of playing in the Molodezhnaya Hockey League in Siberia. NYET!!!

by Marvellous on Jul 22, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think anyone dreams of playing in the KHL yet

But some may prefer to play closer to home and their families and a culture they understand.

I think Russian kids probably dream of the Olympics and World Championships more than they do the three-year-old Gagarin Cup.

by Peter Raaymakers on Jul 22, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fair.

In which case the argument is then: Do these kids stay home to get exposure to their national audience/coaches/scouts etc to try and make the national team?

by The Tif on Jul 22, 2011 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Unfair to say guys leave because they are European.

It is a double standard when we identify North American players as maximizing their career/payday when they go to Europe but European players are are considered greedy, disloyal or weak when they do.

by anothersensfan on Jul 22, 2011 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't say that. I don't blame them for wanting to be home and near to family.

I don’t view that as a bad thing at all – it’s just another league far as I’m concerned. But I do think European players have an added incentive to stay near home … i.e. it is their home.

by The Tif on Jul 22, 2011 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just say'n

If you cant hack somewhat of a gypsy lifestyle pro hockey is a bad career choice.

How many off our N. A. players do you think would consider Binghamton close to home?

I would agree that he is one of Latvia’s best players so its not surprising that they would be interested in him if he is available. It wouldn’t hurt ticket sales if they could sign him.

by anothersensfan on Jul 22, 2011 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Perhaps partially

I’m sure there are also social and cultural reasons for it, too. If I were a pro hockey player and the KHL offered more money than the NHL, I’m not positive I’d go over there. There’d be plenty of money here, and I’m more comfortable here.

I don’t hold any grudges against players who choose to play elsewhere, even if I wish that they’d come over and contribute to the team I cheer for.

by Peter Raaymakers on Jul 26, 2011 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

On the fringes

It’s curious that with the dire need for Bingo forwards to step up, Daugie has only played one game with the Sens in his career… so he was never judged as a potential NHL player. I wonder why with all the players that got called up last year, he wasn’t one of them. In the end, he outscored both Condra and Greening by a mile in the AHL playoffs.

An organization makes its choices, and players move on. Doing well in other leagues outside of the NHL doesn’t seem to mean as much as it used to mean. The Euros play a vastly different game.

There are always alot of fringe players who are almost but not quite good enough who end up leading AHL clubs and move around from team to team trying to get a sniff. We lost a few of those players (Locke, Keller and now Daugie).

by Marvellous on Jul 22, 2011 7:33 AM EDT reply actions  

Based on the 6th sens link

One fan posted that Kaspars was in line for a late season callup, but that was nixed due to injury. I wonder if some one could clarify the circumstances because that is news to me.

However, I do agree with the rest of the blurb: Its good on Kaspars that he even wants to show up at the Sens NHL camp, despite being passed over for even a cup of coffee, after his last two solid years. Especially when he likely has guaranteed money (and more of it) waiting back home.

Unlike his moustache rides, it’s safe to say that the Daugman isn’t going play in Ottawa for free. Unlike many of the Ottawa forward prospects down in Binghamton, Kaspars was never rewarded with a cup of coffee with the Senators roster last season. It’s a credit to him that he even wants to come to camp and contend for a spot, with the number of forwards who are already armed with one-way contracts, the odds are certainly stacked against him. However, as a charismatic cog in Binghamton’s Calder Cup winning lineup who exhibited some strong PK skills and modest offensive production, I’ll be rooting for him.

by DontfeedtheBelak on Jul 22, 2011 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Also a correction

Locke is with us another year.
We lost Keller and Potulny, though Potulny is guaranteed one way in the second year of the deal he signed with the Caps.

by DontfeedtheBelak on Jul 22, 2011 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Who said Kaspars Daugavins is a career AHL'er?

Locke and Keller are 27. Career AHL’ers? Maybe, but don’t forget Matt Carkner was 29 before he finally earned a one way NHL contract.

At age 23 Kaspars is still very much an NHL prospect. I doubt his strong performance during the Calder run went unnoticed either inside or outside our organization. In fact his stock is currently as high as it’s ever been. His agent is simply doing his job, testing Kaspars value and finding opportunities to get paid.

There are several elements influencing Kaspars eventual decision.

  • Will his tryout with Dinamo Riga generate a tempting contract?
  • At the Senators camp will Kaspars confirm his position as a front runner among our prospects?
  • Will Alfie, Peter and Nikita stick in the top six? Each have their own unanswered questions.
  • Does Kaspars believe his AHL development has maxed out?
  • Lastly is Kaspars ready to give up on his NHL dreams?

Given all the unknowns I’d say its a little early to write off the Rooster just yet.

by anothersensfan on Jul 22, 2011 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Daugavins is a restricted free agent. Do the Senators retain his NHL rights if he signs a deal to play in the KHL?

by DW19 on Jul 22, 2011 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sens made Kaspars a qualifying offer

so they will retain NHL RFA rights till he is 27. NHL and KHL currently have an agreement to respect each others contracts but Kaspars would have to sign his qualifying offer or a negotiated contract for this protection to kick in.

by anothersensfan on Jul 22, 2011 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

One last thing

The Senators released other RFAs such as Ryan Potulny and Cody Bass. The fact that they made Kaspars a qualifying offer suggests that he still factors into future plans for our organization.

by anothersensfan on Jul 22, 2011 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Absolutely

He is only 23, and performed at a higher level than Condra, Greening, and Z. Smith in the AHL playoffs.

Perhaps even Butler, too.

And he has NHL calibre wheels, so its unlikely that he will be a Locke or Keller type of guy. If GM Murray was handing out one ways, what’s one more? I hope they keep him in North America. And I hope he gives management something to think about during camp. We have too many bottom six guys; we need guys with topsix potential.

by DontfeedtheBelak on Jul 23, 2011 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yay

Oh yay, I thought Locke got stolen away, but you’re right it was Putulny. I like Corey Locke. IMO, if he had a bit more speed, he’d be an NHLer. There is not much NHL market for a slow miniature scorer… but the guy sure can score.

by Marvellous on Jul 22, 2011 1:03 PM EDT reply actions  

I think the big diff

between some NHL fringe and NHL legit players is speed.

Locke, unfortunately, does not have decent footspeed. I thnk guys like Condra, Wick, Daugavins and O’Brien all skate well, and Greening does too, relative to his size, based on what I saw at the NHL level (and for O’Brien and Kaspars, the AHL highlights that were posted here and at AHL.com).

No telling what role a guy like Kaspars or O’Brien may have in the NHL. I would imagine third-fourth line guys, but we have enough third liners already (Condra, Greening, Z. Smith, Neil, Winchester, Konopka, arguably Foligno and Regin, too, if they don’t take the next step).

I do like Daugavins’ creative streak, though. And for a moderately sized guy, he does play physical. I hope he impresses at camp, even though it may surpassing a one-way guy like Greening and a one way contract in the minors. I guess that is the danger of signing a boatload of bottom six guys, you will have some of those guys as Black Aces or in the AHL.

Better than a Redden contract, at least.

by DontfeedtheBelak on Jul 22, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Top six are one in a million

At the draft table you can guess where guys will end up if they make it to the NHL, but it is just an educated guess. I used to play against guys who played junior at one point in their careers, and they were all such good players. You have to be REALLY good to make it past all of those good players into the NHL. And legitimate top six guys are one in a million.

Speed is really important, but it’s alot more than speed that separates the career minor leaguers from the NHLers.

Guys like Foligno, Regin and Filatov have a tough road ahead trying to break into the top six group. IMO, Filatov may do it if he gets his head out of a dark place and works his ass off. Foligno and Regin just don’t have what it takes to be top six guys. I believe this season will prove that. We are still pretty light in the top six category and one injury will put a deep hole in our questionable scoring.

In the end teams that win the cup usually have the best third and fourth lines around so they have some third liners who would be top six on other weaker teams.

by Marvellous on Jul 22, 2011 1:38 PM EDT reply actions  

I agree

topsix are more rare than bottom six.

We have plenty of bottom six guys, and just signed three more (Condra, Smith, and Greening) to one way deals.

Kaspars has the hands and speed to challenge Regin, Foligno in a topsix role. I think Spezza, Alfredsson, and Michalek are gimmes, but Alfie’s health is an issue.
Butler and Filatov should be given every opportunity, and have higher end…high end skill than Kaspars. But they too are question marks.

Kaspars put up 20 goals a year in the AHL with limited PP and topsix time, had a great AHL playoffs, and has that ‘compete’ aspect, the speed, and likes contact, much the same way that caused our management to reach slightly for Noesen. I like that draft pick, because the ‘compete’ aspect, with a blend of physical play, skill and speed at both ends of the ice, is more likely to produce a NHL 20 goal scorer than just blindingly good skill with questionable ethic. If the gamble doesn’t work out, we still have Prince, Pageau, Zibanejad and Puempel with high end skill from that draft.

And he is only 23, similar in age to the other Glorious Unprovens.

His name should remain in the hat to compete with the other question marks to fill out the top six spots. We have so many bottom six guys, we may as well throw a bone to some of our other prospects that have the potential to score some NHL goals.

by DontfeedtheBelak on Jul 23, 2011 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

The unofficial Ottawa Senators blog

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Sb_small
Alfie: "The kids want me to continue."

Recent FanPosts

Sens_small
Signing our own free agent?
Karlsson_small
Targeting Del Zotto
Nhl_entry_draft_portraits_8_xtv5um7c5l_small
A look at senators depth: Defensemen Addition
Small
Clouston Fired yet again
Small
BM's summer vacation
Nhl_entry_draft_portraits_8_xtv5um7c5l_small
A look at senators depth: Center Addition
Marv_facebook_small
Our style won't win us any playoff series
Karlssonpoint_small
Playoffs prediction competition: round three
Small
Sens sign D Fredrik Claesson to three-year entry-level deal.

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Managers

Heritage_small Peter Raaymakers

Hutz_small DarrenM

Editors

Sens_small Mark Parisi

Sens-suicidebooth_small Ryan Classic

Authors

Small DaveYoung

Karlssonpoint_small Adnan

Small Varada

Bobby__small bobbykelly

Bosch_small Amelia L