Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: How The Kings Beat The Coyotes: Lather, Rinse, Repeat

Silver Nuggets: Senators still trying to trade up; Dave Cameron joins coaching staff

Erik Karlsson is someone the Edmonton Oilers might consider trading the #1 overall pick for. (Photo by Christopher Pasatieri/Getty Images)

The NHL draft week is finally upon us. In four days from now, the Senators will make one of the most important draft selections in club history when they make the sixth (or even earlier?) overall selection. Who will we pick? Will we trade up? It is going to make for an exciting few days. Ryan Classic will return with some great draft analysis later this week. Until then, here are some links:

General Sens News

  • Bryan Murray has talked to Edmonton about acquiring the #1 overall pick, but it would cost Erik Karlsson, which Murray won't do. Murray is aiming for "three or four real good players" with his five picks in the first two rounds. (Ottawa Citizen)
  • A look at the Senators scouting staff and the decision making process they go through into making a selection. (Ottawa Citizen)
  • The Senators have drafted some great talent in the first round such as Alexei Yashin, Marian Hossa, Martin Havlat, Jason Spezza and Erik Karlsson among others. They have also had some great failures in Alexandre Daigle, Mathieu Chouinard and Jakob Klepis. (Ottawa Citizen)
  • While all of us speculate on this player or that player, the life of a scout is travelling all around the country (and the world) and watching games in tiny arenas and trying to find hidden gems. (Ottawa Citizen)
  • Bryan Murray's offseason plan is going to be a busy one with a lot of picks in the draft, certainly some players available for trade, and his stated goal of acquiring a top six forward. (Ottawa Sun)
  • Hockey's Future's draft preview for the Ottawa Senators, taking into account our team needs and strengths. They project we will pick Mika Zibanejad and Nicklas Jensen. (Hockey's Future)
  • Dave Cameron will be one of the new assistant coaches of the Ottawa Senators. While this hasn't been officially announced by the club, Cameron himself admitted as much, saying only a few formalities have to be finalised. (Ottawa Citizen)

More after the jump.

Star-divide

General Hockey News

  • The NHL salary cap will rise $4.6 million to $64 million, with the floor being $16 million below at $48 million. The Senators are currently at $44.75 million with 17 players signed. (TSN)
  • Nicklas Lidstrom will return for one more reason with the Detroit Red Wings, signing a one-year $6.2 million deal. (TSN)
  • Brian Burke wants to trade up. If he some how acquires the seventh pick, and really wants the guy Ottawa wants, will Bryan Murray tell him that he is picking the guy that Burke wants? (TSN)
Poll
Would you consider trading Erik Karlsson to Edmonton for the first overall pick?
Yes, but it would cost more than Karlsson
22 votes
Yes but only in a straight swap
66 votes
No chance
299 votes

387 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 36 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Not worth it

To me, it makes no sense to trade our 20 year old all star defenceman for an 18 year old future all star forward. Basically, we’d be trading a defenceman for a forward and it wouldn’t really move the rebuild process along. Besides, there’s still no guarantee that the first pick will pan out as well as Karlsson has so far.

And I’d say we don’t need to trade up to #1 or even #2 (we don’t need Larsson). But #3-#5 would be nice so we can get our pick of Huberdeau, Landeskog, Couturier, etc.

by Sports Fan! on Jun 20, 2011 1:13 PM EDT reply actions  

I voted no

I wonder if most of the people who also voted no are overvaluing Karlsson, but for me, the best case scenario in that trade would be to draft Larsson and hope that MechaKarlsson is as good as Karlsson has been. If neither one of those guys turns out to be a superstar, all we’ve done is made a lateral move.

Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs

by Mark Parisi on Jun 20, 2011 1:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah I am surprised at how lopsided the vote is so far

While I obviously rate Karlsson higher than most people, I thought others would consider it.

An Ottawa Senators supporter in Toronto, Ontario. I am cool like that.

by Adnan on Jun 20, 2011 1:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I'd bet money it's because of the "draft is a crapshoot" mentality

In this case, though, I’d agree. A bird in the hand…

Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs

by Mark Parisi on Jun 20, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Defence over Offence

Your back end doesn’t have to be star-studded, but it has to be a stud overall. Some finesse, like Kid Karlsson and some real jam. We just saw – again – how pure talent means nothing once the refs decide to stop earning their paycheque. You need real horses on the backend and the right combination of skill and power up front to make it through the grind and the outright thuggery that goes on in the palyoffs.

by Be_rad on Jun 21, 2011 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Assuming everyone pans out, of course

Our only really known quantity right now is Karlsson. The rest is just potential.

Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs

by Mark Parisi on Jun 21, 2011 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yes that's why I said almost...

And that’s why I wouldn’t choose to trade my only known quantity.

Although the whole “draft is a crapshoot” is true, it has more to do with the fact that there are several other needs on this roster, why create another?

by Los Blancos Chicca on Jun 21, 2011 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

The best is yet to come from young Karlsson.

We probably should not be giving up on such a promising player that is only two years into his development. That being said, the kid has been -5 and -30 over his two first seasons in the NHL. It is clear that his upside is on offence. If Rundblad or even Wiercioch could step in and fill that void then I would say we should seriously consider making this deal.

I originally voted no but now am clearly re-thinking my answer a little bit. A straight up trade would be damn tempting. Landing Nugent-Hopkins and Lando or Couts or Strome would be a hell of great start to the rebuild. However, Murray said in the Citizen article that he would never make the trade. It kinda just looks bad on the part of the GM to deal a guy that we have developed so methodically. Tough call.

by oldmonk on Jun 20, 2011 1:50 PM EDT reply actions  

Karlsson is still a pup

Although Karlsson was suspect defensively, remember that he is just getting started, and he’s an exciting player. I’m hoping that Gonchar rejuvenates with the new coaching staff and Rundblad excels,and being around those guys will make Karlsson alot better.

Yeah, it’s be nice to have the first overall, but not at that cost.

by Marvellous on Jun 20, 2011 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's tempting...

…but it would in all likelihood be a step back. Ottawa’s hit rock bottom; the team needs to move forward.

by TheGuineaPig on Jun 20, 2011 2:14 PM EDT reply actions  

Also Karlsson is obviously farther along in his development that a number 1 pick would be so in my mind he’s more valuable than any pick would be, at least in the short term.

Looking long term, a case could be made for and against this idea but like everyone else is saying, the draft is a crap shot and you never know what you’ll get.

by XXXSTAR on Jun 20, 2011 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

I voted no.

It’s possible that the Senators will draft an élite player at sixth; it is even more likely that they will do so if they are able to trade up (it has been known to happen that a team can move up in the draft by trading its first-round pick, another pick, and a prospect; I believe some such trades were analysed by Mark a while back). Karlsson is one of the team’s few blue-chip prospects at this point, perhaps its only prospect who is known to be a star-quality player.

by JonathanA on Jun 20, 2011 3:52 PM EDT reply actions  

Pressure on prospect

If Karlsson went on to be a major star with the Oilers then whoever Ottawa drafted would have even more pressure than your usual #1 pick. That might not be the greatest way for a guy to get his career started.

by DW19 on Jun 20, 2011 4:04 PM EDT reply actions  

I voted Yes straight up

I look at it that Karlsson is a great player, but he was also someone who was drafted at 15 3 years ago. If we can turn a player who was a mid round find into a first overall player I don’t think it’s that crazy of a move, especially when we have a player in Rundblad that is in a similar mold coming through our system behind him.

I think Karlsson is great, but I also look at it that this team is now stacked at D in a way it hasn’t been in a very long time. The Sens need gamebreakers at forward and trading Karlsson could viably net us 1, in addition to another top forward pick at 6.

It’s this type of ballsy move that separates pretenders from contenders. I look at Burke’s move to trade up to 3 to get both Sedin twins, which he flipped Bryan McCabe, a 4th year d-man with decent upside and a first for Chicago’s 3rd overall. That move was a building block to making the Canucks a Stanley Cup contender for the last few years.

by modsuperstar on Jun 20, 2011 9:18 PM EDT reply actions  

It was a masterful trade

Though when researching it, it seemed like extra fanciness in hindsight. I don’t think Burke needed to do the maneuvering he wound up doing to get the Sedins.

Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs

by Mark Parisi on Jun 20, 2011 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

The mid-round pick becoming a top pick is extremely dubious.

Should we have traded Alfredsson for a 1st round pick because the round gain on our pick was so huge? Probably not. Just because it looks like we got a steal mid-1st round doesn’t mean we should peddle it. As well, just because we’re stacked at D right now doesn’t mean we should sell short and sell early.

by Mike Hurley on Jun 20, 2011 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I was going to note this, too

Where a player was drafted doesn’t really matter when you’re talking about what current performance. Some players end up playing much worse than their draft position would have indicated, some play much better.

by Peter Raaymakers on Jun 20, 2011 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Obviously Karlsson’s value has improved since the time he was drafted. Just looking at his draft class you could probably make a case that he would be ranked as high as 3rd or 4th in terms of current development relative to players drafted in the first that year.

Would you trade Karlsson for Stamkos or Doughty who were drafted 1-2 in 08? I think pretty much everyone would do that deal in a heartbeat. And just to play devils advocate here, what if Karlsson’s development follows that of Andrei Mezaros instead of say Sergei Gonchar? Sure first overall picks aren’t sure things all the time, but what if RNH or Lando turn out to be as good as say players they’ve been compared to, like Datsyk or Mike Richards? As they say, past performance does not guarantee future results, so there is no more guarantee that Karlsson keeps trending upward than one of the top picks in the draft develops into a superstar.

by modsuperstar on Jun 20, 2011 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

All those 'what ifs' really stand out to me

What if we trade Karlsson for first overall, draft Sean Couturier with that pick, and he becomes the next Alex Daigle?

What if we trade Karlsson and his development follows Brian Rafalski?

There are lots of potential negatives to the trade, and lots of potential positives. The only thing to do is hedge your bets as much as possible, and the best way to do that in our current situation—with a dynamic young defenceman and a draft class that has no certainty over who is the best player—is the hold on to what we know more about.

In my opinion.

by Peter Raaymakers on Jun 20, 2011 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Erm... and another thing...

(I should always finish reading a comment before replying to it.)

The certainty associated with Karlsson stems from one fact: He’s played in the NHL, and has shown he can do so, and can do so with a level of dynamism that earned him All-Star honours in his first full NHL season.

None of Landeskog, Couturier, Huberdeau, RNH, or any of the draft class have played. Tough to hold that against them because they’re not eligible, but the fact of the matter is we don’t even know if any of them can keep up in the NHL, and even if they are able to keep up in the NHL, we don’t know if they’ll do so as top-six players, or if they’ll be relegated to some lower level.

Comparing the players in this year’s draft to Stamkos doesn’t strike me as reasonable: There’s no obvious leader of the pack this year, and among the several leaders not one has the kind of expectations Stamkos (or even Doughty) had at the time.

by Peter Raaymakers on Jun 20, 2011 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's this type of ballsy move that only works when it makes sense

Why did the Senators trade their first-rounder for Rundblad? Because their pro scout of the time (Anders Hedberg) knew the kid, and knew—he knew—that he was going to be good in this league.

Your argument is based on the conclusion that trading Karlsson could viably net us a game-breaker, and improves our chances of doing so by securing two picks in the top-six. That’s true. But it’s still not remotely a guarantee, while Karlsson is guaranteed to at least continue as he’s been (notably, a very strong offensive defenceman)—but will likely improve.

I think trading Karlsson for a top prospect could be a good idea, but I don’t think any of the players in this year’s draft come with enough certainty to take the chance. You don’t always get certainty, but sometimes you’re more certain than others.

by Peter Raaymakers on Jun 20, 2011 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Especially when there are no home runs in this draft; no Crosby or Ovechkin or Stamkos.

by Be_rad on Jun 21, 2011 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

The fact that Edmonton have asked for Karlsson in return for the pick almost guarantees that they will be going for a d-man (Larsson).

That shows me that the Sens don’t need to trade up to 1st or 2nd. They need to get into the top 5 and we will get a forward that they need. It’s not like they have one glaring hole in offense. They could use a winger and a centre, so any pick between 3-5 should do and the cost will be less.

by Los Blancos Chicca on Jun 21, 2011 10:23 AM EDT reply actions  

They didn't ask for Karlsson, though

That was Murray speculating on what they’d ask for. He may be an oversharer, but I doubt he’d tip his hand to what the price of the 1st overall actually is.

Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs

by Mark Parisi on Jun 21, 2011 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ohhhh...

Okay. My bad! That makes sense…

But if that is what they were looking at, then I’d stick to my above statement.

by Los Blancos Chicca on Jun 21, 2011 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

No way we trade Karlsson unless we're getting more back than the first overall, and that won't happen.

PS I heard a rumour (from my mother, so don’t take it too seriously) that Kells is bringing Stanley back to Ottawa. Can anyone confirm/deny?

Oh Captain, my Captain!

by AlfieGirl on Jun 21, 2011 10:47 AM EDT reply actions  

I think it was reported in the Citizen

But I think it was in one of those captions beneath a photo (in this case, of Chris Kelly with the Stanley Cup), so I don’t know how accurate it is.

by JonathanA on Jun 21, 2011 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

According to this he will

Link

“Ottawa has been so good to me,” said Kelly, whose parents live in Bowmanville, Ont. “I don’t know what I’ll do (with the Cup), but it will probably be in Ottawa.”

An Ottawa Senators supporter in Toronto, Ontario. I am cool like that.

by Adnan on Jun 21, 2011 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Fingers crossed that I can get my second picture with Stanley in two years.

Oh Captain, my Captain!

by AlfieGirl on Jun 21, 2011 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Erik Karlsson for the first?

Terrible move. It would send a bad message to younger players about how we treat them, and might rub a few veteran FA’s up the wrong way too. I know I’ve said it before up here, but I’m sure perception of fanbases and management goes a long way in the league.

by The Tif on Jun 21, 2011 8:26 PM EDT reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

The unofficial Ottawa Senators blog

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Sb_small
Alfie: "The kids want me to continue."

Recent FanPosts

Sens_small
Signing our own free agent?
Karlsson_small
Targeting Del Zotto
Nhl_entry_draft_portraits_8_xtv5um7c5l_small
A look at senators depth: Defensemen Addition
Small
Clouston Fired yet again
Small
BM's summer vacation
Nhl_entry_draft_portraits_8_xtv5um7c5l_small
A look at senators depth: Center Addition
Marv_facebook_small
Our style won't win us any playoff series
Karlssonpoint_small
Playoffs prediction competition: round three
Small
Sens sign D Fredrik Claesson to three-year entry-level deal.

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Managers

Heritage_small Peter Raaymakers

Hutz_small DarrenM

Editors

Sens_small Mark Parisi

Sens-suicidebooth_small Ryan Classic

Authors

Small DaveYoung

Karlssonpoint_small Adnan

Small Varada

Bobby__small bobbykelly

Bosch_small Amelia L