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Analyzing Bryan Murray's contract extension


To the surprise of many, the Ottawa Senators announced today that current GM Bryan Murray had signed a three-year contract extension, but the logic behind the move isn't as outrageous as it appears at first glance. Murray's contract was set to expire on June 30th. That contract itself was a one-year extension, signed on February 12th, 2010, of Murray's previous contract, signed on June 18th, 2007 -- just a few weeks after the team had lost to the Anaheim Ducks in the Stanley Cup Finals.

That extension by itself was a mild surprise. The Senators were contending thanks to an impressive winning streak and some fans felt Murray would step aside, having built a playoff team that only needed tweaking in future years despite the loss of Dany Heatley in the offseason.

At the time, Murray said:

"I'm not a spring chicken at this point in time by any means, but I feel very comfortable in being able to work for a while longer."

Many fans took this mean this would be the final year of his role as GM. In January, when it became clear the Senators were not going to be in contention, speculation ran rampant over the fates of Murray and head coach Cory Clouston. Team owner Eugene Melnyk ended this speculation, which had reached a fever pitch after a 7-1 loss to the Montreal Canadiens, by announcing the next day both Murray and Clouston would stay for the rest of the year, and the decision on their futures would be decided after the season had ended. In that interview, he famously stated:

"The reason I’ve been quiet is I’ve been working on a plan. That plan is now in motion."

Two days later, the Toronto Globe and Mail reported that Eugene Melnyk's plan would be to hire a new GM and move Murray into an advisory role. That report -- now revealed as erroneous -- fueled speculation on who would be the next general manager of the Ottawa Senators, though Melnyk did not give any further information until this week.

That Murray would not be returning as general manager seemed a foregone conclusion as he supervised the fire sale of tradable assets during the month of February. To many, it looked as if Murray had been tasked with clearing the plate for his successor -- at the end of the deadline he had acquired at least five picks, two players, and cleared almost $15M off of the books. All told, the team would be entering the offseason almost $20M below the existing salary cap. These actions, combined with Murray's earlier "spring chicken" comment, seemed to reinforce the belief that he was stepping aside.

The fly in the ointment to this speculation came around the same time, as Murray re-signed defenseman Chris Phillips to a 3-year, $9.25M contract extension. Why would a departing GM be making personnel decisions for the future?

This question was raised again a month later, when goaltender Craig Anderson signed a 4-year, $12.75M deal. Murray was either sticking around or really stepping on the toes of his successor.

How did Murray go from being shown the door to landing a three-year deal?

Star-divide

 

Probably the biggest factor is the play of Anderson. Since joining Ottawa, he has a record of 11-5-1, with a team-leading GAA of 2.05. He has a fantastic save percentage of .940 and 2 shutouts in 18 games. Anderson was acquired via trade from the Colorado Avalanche for Brian Elliott, who owned a 13-19-8 record with a GAA of 3.19 and a save percentage of .890 with the Senators this year.

Watching Murray seemingly solidify the goaltender position by essentially a one-sided trade, and load up with draft picks for departing assets seemed to give Melnyk the confidence to believe he was the correct GM to turn the Senators into a Cup contender again.

Once Melnyk had accepted that the Senators were not going to be the contender he desired, he had a decision to make: Despite having a hand in the team's slide since that 2007, was Murray the right person to rebuild a team? Here, the list of evidence weighs in Murray's favor: his selections in Anaheim (most notably Ryan Getzlaf and Corey Perry, but also including Joffery Lupul, Drew Miller, Shane O'Brien, and Ladislav Smid) formed a part of the team that beat the Senators in the Finals. In his tenure with Ottawa, he has already selected six players (Erik Karlsson, Patrick Weircioch, Zack Smith, Jared Cowen, Jakob Silfverberg, and Robin Lehner) who are expected to be part of the team's future. In addition, he acquired three more (Bobby Butler, David Rundblad, and most recently Stephane Da Costa) through other means who are also expected to contribute.

This does not mean Murray is absolved of blame in seeing the team reach the point of needing to rebuild. He traded away draft picks for players such as Cory Stillman, Mike Commodore, Matt Cullen, and Andy Sutton only to let those players depart via free agency. He signed Ray Emery to a contract that was bought out the next year. He has fired two coaches, John Paddock and Craig Hartsburg, before their first seasons were even completed. His free agency signings have not had major impact with the team.

The signing of Alex Kovalev, in particular, looks like a tremendous mistake in hindsight. Fans are already wary of last year's signing of Sergei Gonchar heading down the same path. In the conference announcing his extension today, Murray mentioned several times that he was not interested in making "stopgap" moves by signing aging veterans. Earlier this year, I argued these moves were made, in part, due to a fan base unwilling to support a team not in playoff contention. His repeated use of the word "stopgap" seems to support the idea that the moves were made with the intention keeping the team competitive in the short term. Whether fan sentiment was a factor in those decisions is only speculation on my part, but fan reaction to the team's turnaround since the NHL's trade deadline has to be encouraging for Melnyk, because it means Murray has the freedom to stop pursuing "stopgap" measures and truly build a team with his own vision instead.

Melynk is often mocked for his unbridled enthusiasm, but there isn't any doubt that he wants to win Stanley Cups. His acceptance of reality -- that the Senators were an aging team not truly capable of contending -- has cleared the way for the next GM of the team to try to build that elite team he desires. However, if Melnyk has accepted reality, so can we as fans, and that reality is that the team does not yet have the talent on its roster to be considered elite. The effort it will take to get there is going to be a multi-year one, and if Melnyk believes Murray is the man for the job (and based on the foundation Murray has already laid and his history of success in doing so, this is not an unfair belief) then it was only logical to sign him to an extension spanning those multiple years.

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Great post.

I was, as you said, very shocked at the extension. I thought Murray was about ready to step back, based almost entirely on his age. But I guess he thinks he can still go.

I’m not sure how I feel about this. It probably depends on whether Murray backs his words with action and avoids stupid contracts (to internal and external guys) while focussing on acquiring young players. Plus we’ll see if the fifth coach he selects (assuming Clouston is gone) has any more success than the first four.

An Ottawa Senators fan blogging at www.silversevensens.com

by Peter Raaymakers on Apr 8, 2011 3:29 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah, I know what you mean

I get the sense that the chance to build the team essentially from scratch is what made the difference between stepping back and staying on.

I think you’re right. If he shits the team up with bad contracts, we could be looking at a Florida-like death spiral. I’m hoping that the freedom to truly do Senate Reform will keep him from doing so. The Heatley contract really burned him; let’s hope he remembers it the next time he makes an investment in the future.

Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs

by Mark Parisi on Apr 8, 2011 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

If he shits the team up?

Now there’s a mental image I didn’t need.

Oh Captain, my Captain!

by AlfieGirl on Apr 8, 2011 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

ewww – i’ve got skid-marks on my brain now!

by west-sider on Apr 8, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Coaching

I haven’t been a huge fan of Murray’s player personnel moves, but overall, I have to admit has hasn’t been terrible in that area. But his choice of coaches, which seems really important, hasn’t been great at all and that tips the scale for me. That and his incessant inability to play his cards closer to his vest and not spout off on what he’s thinking in terms of trades and moves (the Spezza fiasco last summer comes to mind.)

by Sens Fan In NYC on Apr 8, 2011 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed on both points

I really wish he’d shut up more.

Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs

by Mark Parisi on Apr 8, 2011 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

AMEN!

Mark. You are the man. So well written! I agree on all points.

http://ottawasconsensus.blogspot.com/

by DaveYoung on Apr 8, 2011 3:35 PM EDT reply actions  

Thanks, man

Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs

by Mark Parisi on Apr 8, 2011 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I somewhat agree with this
Earlier this year, I argued these moves were made, in part, due to a fan base unwilling to support a team not in playoff contention.

I think it’s true, but I’m willing to bet that the biggest factor was an owner not willing to admit that we needed a rebuild.

Oh Captain, my Captain!

by AlfieGirl on Apr 8, 2011 3:38 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah, I'd agree with you there

Melnyk’s delusions probably played a bigger role than fan expectations, which is why it was so critical for him to accept the need to rebuild… at least, I hope that’s the case. No team should be making moves at the whims of its fans.

Still, I don’t think it can be ignored that a team needing to make it to the second round of the playoffs to make money cannot afford an unsupportive fanbase. A signing like Gonchar was almost mandatory to sell the fans that this year the team would not only return to the playoffs, but win there, you know?

Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs

by Mark Parisi on Apr 8, 2011 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, it's true

While I have no doubt that Melnyk was a big factor, he certainly wasn’t the entire reason. The fact that the fans here are so fairweather makes a lot of sense too. But at least they seem to be on board with the rebuild, even if they might be a bit deluded about how long it will take!

Oh Captain, my Captain!

by AlfieGirl on Apr 8, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Neither do I

But hopefully they can do enough next season to win the fans over. If we have a season along the lines of our last couple of months of playing spoiler, I think the fans will see that we’re not far off from being a playoff contender and will re-engage with the team.

Then again, I’m happy with a bottom-5 finish since I’m actually excited to see next season. I’ll take long-term excitement about the team over the short-term excitement of a quick first round exit from the playoffs. Unfortunately, not everyone is as smart as I am!

Oh Captain, my Captain!

by AlfieGirl on Apr 8, 2011 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think we've got a chance at squeaking into 8th

But an outside chance. Not something I would consider likely.

by B_T on Apr 8, 2011 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

We are so far ahead of Edmonton

Because of it I see us finishing above the bottom ten. Bottom feeders don’t have a Jason Spezza, Chris Neil, Chris Phillips, Eric Karlsson or a decent third and fourth line

by Hockey Playoff Run SensFan on Apr 8, 2011 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ha!

Chris Neil?

Trying to be Erik Karlsson's agent since October, 2010.

by Adnan on Apr 8, 2011 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Truth!

Neil is good at what he does, and at least he’s not a liability.

Oh Captain, my Captain!

by AlfieGirl on Apr 8, 2011 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think with the emergence of Z.Smith

in the dumb penalties specialty, Neil has become much better

My Jason Spezza Obsession is Perfectly Healthy!

by SensDew19 on Apr 8, 2011 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

I really don't want ZSmith to become that guy

I hope someone (Giggles?) can get through to him the fact that he can do better and should stop trying to fill that role.

Oh Captain, my Captain!

by AlfieGirl on Apr 8, 2011 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

80% of the time takes the occasional penalty?

Sure he takes penalties, but we need someone to fill that role and that guy is always going to take penalties.

Neil won my love when he was the only player who showed up against San Jose. I’m still disappointed in the rest of them because no one seemed to give a shit that it was a once-in-a-franchise game. Except Chris Neil, and I respect that.

Oh Captain, my Captain!

by AlfieGirl on Apr 8, 2011 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I never said Im enjoying Z.Smith's DPPG ;)

But i agree with you on Neil, he is the one guy that shows up no matter what the occasion is. I will take his occasional penalties for what he brings to the team

My Jason Spezza Obsession is Perfectly Healthy!

by SensDew19 on Apr 8, 2011 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Emotional not occasional

He reacts to something on the ice. it’s not a bad thing. I just wish he buried his chances more often. He gets set up a lot and just does not have the hands

by Hockey Playoff Run SensFan on Apr 8, 2011 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

You said both emotional and occasional

And no his hands aren’t always great, but he’s gotten better than he used to be and every now and then he does succeed.

Oh Captain, my Captain!

by AlfieGirl on Apr 8, 2011 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

None of the above actually

Trying to be Erik Karlsson's agent since October, 2010.

by Adnan on Apr 8, 2011 5:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Every team needs someone to be the tough guy

I don’t care whether you’re for or against hockey fights, they’re a part of the game that’s not going away any time soon. A team with no one to be the tough guy – especially a team with as many rookies as we’ll have next year – will just get beat up.

Oh Captain, my Captain!

by AlfieGirl on Apr 8, 2011 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

No they won't

If you don’t have a fighter, you don’t have to fight. You just get a power play.

I am all for tough guys, one of my favourite players was Anton Volchenkov. We need guys who can deliver hits, and Neil does that.

Anyway my original comment was laughing at not every team having a Chris Neil. He’s not special. Spezza sure, Karlsson sure, Phillips sure. Neil?

Trying to be Erik Karlsson's agent since October, 2010.

by Adnan on Apr 8, 2011 5:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Wow, you've come full circle on Philly, eh?

I also completely disagree that you don’t have to fight if you don’t have a fighter. It may technically be true, but in reality it’s going to turn into Ryan Shannon fighting, and that’s just not going to be good.

Oh Captain, my Captain!

by AlfieGirl on Apr 8, 2011 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

No I still think Phillips will be bottom pairing by the end of his contract

But he has a history as a top pairing defenceman, and he could still turn it around with better team play. I would be surprised if he did, but it is conceivable. Anderson can help with that too.

Chris Neil has never been more than a 3rd liner and never will be. He also hasn’t been an alternate captain for years like Phillips.

Even if we need a fighter, they are easily found. We also have others who can do it occasionally from time to time.

Trying to be Erik Karlsson's agent since October, 2010.

by Adnan on Apr 8, 2011 6:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I'm not saying Neil's a player of the century

But as fighter’s go, he’s got great heart and in my opinion isn’t a liability.

I’m not saying we need to retire his number when he retires, but I want him on my team.

Oh Captain, my Captain!

by AlfieGirl on Apr 8, 2011 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly

Never more than a 3rd liner. That’s exactly what he is, a better than average 4th liner that provides a physical presence to the team, keeping the opposition honest in more than one way.

I think people are saying it’s better to have him than a Lessard or Raitans or Avery or Boogard or some other goon. I’d certainly rather have Lucic or Backes but guys like that aren’t made available. In the size+skill metric, Neil isn’t elite but he’s better than average, and better than other options available to the Sens. And he’s a motivating guy, as others have mentioned (an “intangible”).

by Joebo on Apr 10, 2011 1:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yep, that's pretty much my whole point

Is he going to be a highly sought-after franchise player? No. But he’s less of a liability than Avery or Boogard, and I don’t think anyone will argue that Lessard is his equal :)

Oh Captain, my Captain!

by AlfieGirl on Apr 10, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with Chris Neil included on that list

He brings a lot more than a willingness to drop the gloves. He’s sixth in the league in hits, he’s only missed one game all year, and he plays hard all the time.

I read earlier in the year that he was probably the most vocal in the dressing room about the need for everyone to try harder. We need that on the team, especially with a lot of younger guys coming in.

by BorisB on Apr 8, 2011 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed. Neil is a heart and soul guy

And when we got rid of Fisher, we needed someone else who goes balls out every shift. And Neil does that.

by The Tif on Apr 8, 2011 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

IMO, David McNab is the mastermind behind the relatively successful Ducks player development and scouting. Murray and Burke profited from his work.

by Acer9 on Apr 8, 2011 3:43 PM EDT reply actions  

Well, I certainly don't mean to imply that Murray is a drafting mastermind all by himself

Player selection and development is the result of hard work of a bunch of people. But at the end of the day, the GM is the one who pulls the trigger. Assembling and trusting your staff is a critical part of building a successful team.

Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs

by Mark Parisi on Apr 8, 2011 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mark - a very considerate and sober (for a Friday) arguement

I’m basically exactly where you are on this.

I have to say though, this point:

Probably the biggest factor is the play of Anderson. Since joining Ottawa, he has a record of 11-5-1, with a team-leading GAA of 2.05

“team-leading” was a little superfluous, no?

by west-sider on Apr 8, 2011 3:45 PM EDT reply actions  

Ha, because the rest of our goalies are so awful?

Maybe it was superfluous, but not everyone might realize how good Anderson’s Ottawa numbers were.

Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs

by Mark Parisi on Apr 8, 2011 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

because the rest are so gawdawful

saying team leading in that context is like saying Melnyk is a rich billionaire.

by west-sider on Apr 8, 2011 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

A goals against average hovering around 2.05 on a team as bad as the Senators is incredible. But you’re right, the “team-leading” comment is pretty funny.

Silver Seven: the Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators blogs.

by DarrenM on Apr 8, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, this is a great summary

Good read. I’m conflicted, as Murray’s good moves: bad moves ratio is, at best, 50/50, and the results certainly weren’t there for a GM who inherited a bona fide contender, even if he’s had some fantastically bad luck with Heatley, Leclaire, off-ice troubles with Emery, etc. My excitement to see a few years of Murray’s drafting pushes this into palatable territory – barely.

by Varada on Apr 8, 2011 3:48 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm right there with you

He’s a major reason (though less than Muckler, in my opinion) why the team is even in the Senate Reform era, so I can’t get too excited over the deal. But he’s shown an ability to build a team well. Like Peter said, I think we’ll be evaluating this three years from now based on how well he keeps backs his words with actions. Smart deals will make us a contender, and dumb ones will sink us for years.

Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs

by Mark Parisi on Apr 8, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

The biggest reason I'm on board with the extension is his recovery from Muckler

Mad props for taking a team that had traded away its picks and prospects for short-term fixes and fixing the situation in a few years. The fact that we’re able to a) fill our roster gaps with a bunch of prospects who can then hold their own in their NHL debuts, and b) still have our farm team make the playoffs despite us pilfering all their best guys, is absolutely huge, IMO. And underappreciated, unfortunately.

Oh Captain, my Captain!

by AlfieGirl on Apr 8, 2011 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yep, eight probable NHLers in two years (including an All-Star) is really promising.

Especially when you consider that it took Muckler four years to reach the same number, and only then because Greening and Condra made it this year.

Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs

by Mark Parisi on Apr 8, 2011 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Holy crap, plus the two more signings today.

Someone needs to make a chart.

Oh Captain, my Captain!

by AlfieGirl on Apr 8, 2011 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ha

We’ll see if Andre Petersson or Pat Cannone turn out to be NHL-caliber players. Those signings increase Soylent and Z. Smith’s odds of being here full time next year, in my opinion.

Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs

by Mark Parisi on Apr 8, 2011 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think I actually need a cheat sheet

But I’ll hold off on making one until at least training camp, if not the final roster post-preseason

Oh Captain, my Captain!

by AlfieGirl on Apr 8, 2011 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am also conflicted

The man clearly has made moves and decisions that led to this disastrous season. He also made moves that helped a regular season juggernaut (and playoff team 11 years in a row) fall into mediocrity, although some of this was outside of his control (Muckler’s selling of the future, Brian Lee, Heatley’s demand).

However, when it came to playing for the future, when it was clear that this team was poor a few months ago,
his trades of Fisher and Co for picks, getting Anderson, and promoting Greening, Condra, Butler, etc. were all good moves with the future in mind.

Getting Anderson has cost the Sens a chance at the top 3-4 stud talents. But it got a solid NHL goalie for the first time since 2007. They will still draft a good prospect first. They will still have a bunch of picks to use to stock the shelves.
And then, some good fortune helped with the rebuild, too. Da Costa and Butler were like free draft picks (apparently there is another on the way). Lee may be a solid defensive d-man afterall. Muckler afterthoughts (Greening and Condra) look to be at least third liners at this level. Rundblad and Cowen (and maybe Wiercioch) are all high end D to join Karlsson.

Maybe resign Shannon (great on the PK, and wants to stay), a bargain basement backup goalie, and let the kids run the show next year.

The following year we’ll see if Murray did a good enough job to get us back to consistent playoff team status.

by DontfeedtheBelak on Apr 8, 2011 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Welcome to the site!

Yeah, I don’t know how to be except conflicted. No one can deny he’s made bad decisions, just like no one can deny he’s made some really promising draft picks. There’s a case to believe he’ll fail and a case to believe he’ll succeed. Only time will tell, and that’s nerve-wracking for any fan.

Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs

by Mark Parisi on Apr 8, 2011 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

My only issue is the third year

I really would have liked this to be one or two years, with the possibility of an extension based on where we stand then.

Although I’m not crazy enough to think we’ll be in the playoffs next year, I do think it’s possible two years from now (though maybe not all that likely). As much as I like Murray GMing this team at the stage it’s at now, there’s so much uncertainty about where we’ll be in two years that I’m not particularly comfortable with Murray at the helm for the third year of this deal. It may turn out fine if the rebuild takes some time, but if in two years we’re looking to fine-tune a contender, I just don’t think it’s Murray’s forte.

Oh Captain, my Captain!

by AlfieGirl on Apr 8, 2011 4:28 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah

I don’t see why they couldn’t give him a one year deal, and if they liked what he did, given him another one year deal…. etc.

Silver Seven: the Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators blogs.

by DarrenM on Apr 8, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly

Some people might not like it, but this past extension shows that Murray doesn’t seem to mind. I’m just worried that this will saddle us with a longer rebuild than we need or end up being a hiccup on the way back to being a contender.

Oh Captain, my Captain!

by AlfieGirl on Apr 8, 2011 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's not that big a problem

It’s Melnyk’s money to risk. If we are okay with him for 1 year, then after a year, if he totally screws up, he can be kicked out.

Where as with some of the player extensions, i.e. Phillips and Anderson…we can’t do that as easily.

Trying to be Erik Karlsson's agent since October, 2010.

by Adnan on Apr 8, 2011 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

My problem

Is that I doubt he’ll screw up enough to justify being fired. I don’t give a crap about Melnyk’s money (with the exception that I don’t want the team to go bankrupt, but I doubt that’s a serious risk right now). My problem is that there could well come a time during this contract when Murray isn’t bad enough to get fired, but also isn’t what’s best for the team. If that happens, it’ll likely lead to a setback in becoming competitive again.

Oh Captain, my Captain!

by AlfieGirl on Apr 8, 2011 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

True

And with Melnyk already lumping him into the good guy category, he might find it hard to let go.

Trying to be Erik Karlsson's agent since October, 2010.

by Adnan on Apr 8, 2011 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Absolutely, Melnyk is anything but objective when comes to this team

And it doesn’t help his decision making that he’s not actually around the team all that often.

Cannot play with 'em, cannot win with 'em, cannot coach with 'em. Cant do it.

by Andrew J on Apr 8, 2011 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't know, I don't think there's that much security in this deal

It buys him 2 years minimum IMO. If at that time the re-build looks like it’s stalled I don’t think (I hope) they’ll think twice about going in a different direction.

You could argue that he hasn’t been ‘bad enough to get fired’ for awhile now, so the question is how many years of ‘not bad enough to get fired’ is enough to get him fired?

Cannot play with 'em, cannot win with 'em, cannot coach with 'em. Cant do it.

by Andrew J on Apr 8, 2011 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ugh, Damien Cox

http://thestar.blogs.com/thespin/2011/04/murray-stays-in-charge.html

One of the key problems for Murray now is apparently trading Jason Spezza. And trying to trade Daniel Alfredsson.

Sigh.

Silver Seven: the Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators blogs.

by DarrenM on Apr 8, 2011 4:48 PM EDT reply actions  

BWAHAHAHAHAHA

Dude is such an idiot.

An Ottawa Senators fan blogging at www.silversevensens.com

by Peter Raaymakers on Apr 8, 2011 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

HA!

Yeah, because that’s totally the direction we’re going. Trading Spezza and Alfie.

Oh Captain, my Captain!

by AlfieGirl on Apr 8, 2011 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like the power struggle part the best

That article reads like fiction the whole way through

Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs

by Mark Parisi on Apr 8, 2011 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Really, Damien Cox wrote a bad article

You don’t say

Sometimes it seems this cycle never ends, we slide from top to bottom then we turn and climb again.
Stoik_Leafs Twitter

by Chris Stoikoff on Apr 8, 2011 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Haha, I know, it’s not exactly news, I was just amazed that he thinks that two of the three biggest needs for Ottawa are trading Spezza and Alfredsson (rather than successful drafting, signing, and trading in the next three years).

Silver Seven: the Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators blogs.

by DarrenM on Apr 8, 2011 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Murray’s #1 goal right now should be turning that 4th or 5th overall pick into “not Jared Cowen”, then go from there

Sometimes it seems this cycle never ends, we slide from top to bottom then we turn and climb again.
Stoik_Leafs Twitter

by Chris Stoikoff on Apr 8, 2011 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh my
d managed only 54 games this season. His productivity has dropped off, but he’s still the team captain. Problem is, with two more years at $4.875 million, it will be tough to move Alfredsson even if Ottawa wants to try and get something for him.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh Captain, my Captain!

by AlfieGirl on Apr 8, 2011 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Man

that guy trolls every fanbase.

You can't give up hope just because it's hopeless. You have to hope even harder, cover your ears, and go 'blah blah blah blah blah!'

by nhlcheapshot on Apr 8, 2011 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I just realized something

I look forward to the next temper tantrum out of asshat Jeffrey Simpson.

Oh Captain, my Captain!

by AlfieGirl on Apr 8, 2011 5:02 PM EDT reply actions  

He's the season ticket holder

who wrote a letter to the Sens that if Murray isnt gone by May 1st or something he wont renew the tix, he also happens to be a CBC writer so he made the letter public

My Jason Spezza Obsession is Perfectly Healthy!

by SensDew19 on Apr 8, 2011 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I read it

I have no idea what that jackass thinks, but no one cares if he doesn’t renew his tickets.

by Alexander Calloway on Apr 8, 2011 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

It pissed me off enough that I wrote to Cyril to say we're not all that dumb

I just assume based on that temper tantrum that another one is forthcoming now that Murray’s been extended. I look forward to another letter to mock, and potentially ending up getting another thank you letter from Cyril if I feel the need to respond.

Oh Captain, my Captain!

by AlfieGirl on Apr 8, 2011 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Was Damien Cox born an idiot?

wth is wrong with this guy

Moving on, I realized I may have overreacted to the signing but mostly cause of its length. But watching the team last night was a bit of an eye opener (seriously watching games live is a whole different perspective) I think he at least has done well to give us a chance to build from the inside. My issue now remains with his coaching choices and what will happen there

My Jason Spezza Obsession is Perfectly Healthy!

by SensDew19 on Apr 8, 2011 5:22 PM EDT reply actions  

From DownGoesBrown
DownGoesBrown Down Goes Brown
Fun fact: Bryan Murray has a worse record in his four years as GM in Ottawa than John Ferguson Jr. did in his four in Toronto.
1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply

Ha, that’s actually true. JFJ won a playoff series and picked up 367 points.
Murray has won no series and gotten 345 points.

Different teams and all, but still true.

Trying to be Erik Karlsson's agent since October, 2010.

by Adnan on Apr 8, 2011 5:24 PM EDT reply actions  

Its amazing how much fun Leafs fans

are enjoying this signing….I never really saw Murray as being worse than Burke. Is this a case of them overrating little Burkie again?

My Jason Spezza Obsession is Perfectly Healthy!

by SensDew19 on Apr 8, 2011 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Obv they don't know what they're talking about

Wilson has become the first Toronto coach to miss the playoffs three years in a row, but they seem happy with him too.

Oh Captain, my Captain!

by AlfieGirl on Apr 8, 2011 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Apparently

he’s the reason for their recent surge, what? I dont get Leafs fans most times, but their reaction to the Murray signing was a bit over the top

My Jason Spezza Obsession is Perfectly Healthy!

by SensDew19 on Apr 8, 2011 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

That surge that we all knew wouldn't be enough to get them in the playoffs?

That surge that once again will leave them screwed in the draft and stuck on the golf course? Not that the draft really matters since they’re still paying for Kessel.

Oh Captain, my Captain!

by AlfieGirl on Apr 8, 2011 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

you know what makes me laugh?

Their surge was magical, our recent winning is hysterically stupid…. either way I dont even care. If I start defending Murray more it’ll be to support the team against their kind of idiocy

Also attending last night’s game confirmed my prior opinion: Habs Fans > Leafs Fans

My Jason Spezza Obsession is Perfectly Healthy!

by SensDew19 on Apr 8, 2011 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

They were actually pretty quiet where I was sitting

I lucked out and ended up in a pocket of Sens fans. It was pretty sweet.

Oh Captain, my Captain!

by AlfieGirl on Apr 8, 2011 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

My entire row were habs fans

and the half row right above me too and they were all loud with their cheers and Oles and we bickered all game long BUT it was fun. When I attended the Sens Leafs game 2 yrs ago, the Leafs fans were just plain annoying it wasnt even fun. Last night was a BLAST! Also Habs fans pout like 5 year old, its cute :p

My Jason Spezza Obsession is Perfectly Healthy!

by SensDew19 on Apr 8, 2011 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Habs fans are the most pompous and entitled fans I have ever met

Leafs fans, at least the ones I generally meet, are funny and capable of taking a joke or joking around.

Habs fans feel the NHL should be a shrine to them.

Trying to be Erik Karlsson's agent since October, 2010.

by Adnan on Apr 8, 2011 5:51 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I disagree

Both with your take on Montreal and your take on Toronto.

Oh Captain, my Captain!

by AlfieGirl on Apr 8, 2011 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually that was the problem

Leafs fans were just insulting us, it wasnt a good laugh. With Habs fans they teased us, we teased them and everyone was laughing (they were pouting in between). Maybe its just me but I dont get the same vibe. I do agree that some Habs fans disregard other teams and whatnot but the majority of who Ive met compared to Leafs were better

My Jason Spezza Obsession is Perfectly Healthy!

by SensDew19 on Apr 8, 2011 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Habs fans at the office pranked me yesterday, and I played along (and won)

When they pranked the Leafs fan at work, he sent a sternly worded email to the entire group at work. Both are jerks, but Montreal fans definitely have more of a sense of humour.

But maybe Montreal fans in Toronto are worse.

Oh Captain, my Captain!

by AlfieGirl on Apr 8, 2011 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pretty much what I feel

My Jason Spezza Obsession is Perfectly Healthy!

by SensDew19 on Apr 8, 2011 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I work with about a dozen Habs fans every single day. Most of them can take a joke only because they don’t understand what you’re saying anyways. Maybe it’s just the people I work with though.

Sometimes it seems this cycle never ends, we slide from top to bottom then we turn and climb again.
Stoik_Leafs Twitter

by Chris Stoikoff on Apr 8, 2011 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I like you

Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs

by Mark Parisi on Apr 8, 2011 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hahahaha

Silver Seven: the Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators blogs.

by DarrenM on Apr 8, 2011 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ha!

Rec’d

Trying to be Erik Karlsson's agent since October, 2010.

by Adnan on Apr 8, 2011 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

No doubt, Habs fans walk around with an unreal sense of entitlement

It’s pretty pathetic.

Cannot play with 'em, cannot win with 'em, cannot coach with 'em. Cant do it.

by Andrew J on Apr 8, 2011 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

If you go on the Habs website on SBN

On the right side on the main page, they have a team photo and a paragraph for every single year they won the cup. Separately one by one.

Then they do repeat this for every jersey they retired.
Here is the link

Trying to be Erik Karlsson's agent since October, 2010.

by Adnan on Apr 8, 2011 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like the four times the Leafs beat them in the finals better, including the almighty 1967!

Sometimes it seems this cycle never ends, we slide from top to bottom then we turn and climb again.
Stoik_Leafs Twitter

by Chris Stoikoff on Apr 8, 2011 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am probably the only Sens fan here that loves conversing with Leafs fans

It’s usually good and fan banter. Besides, I love arguing.

But that could be because I am from Toronto.

Trying to be Erik Karlsson's agent since October, 2010.

by Adnan on Apr 8, 2011 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I think you are the only one.

All my hockey conversations with Leafs fans have degenerated into “DOUGIEEEEEE!” or “Whatever, your captain dyes his hair for the playoffs! Ha!” so I’ve given up.

Oh Captain, my Captain!

by AlfieGirl on Apr 8, 2011 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can’t guarantee that we’re all going to be reasonable. I’m not Alfredsson, you know.

I kid, I kid

Sometimes it seems this cycle never ends, we slide from top to bottom then we turn and climb again.
Stoik_Leafs Twitter

by Chris Stoikoff on Apr 8, 2011 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bashing a fellow SBN site?

Come on, dude.

Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs

by Mark Parisi on Apr 8, 2011 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's ridiculous

Trying to be Erik Karlsson's agent since October, 2010.

by Adnan on Apr 8, 2011 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I kind of feel like that history should be respected

I would support a blurb (or at least an article) on this site explaining why Finnigan’s 8 was retired. As an added bonus, it could cover the rumour that he’s haunting the Palladium!

Oh Captain, my Captain!

by AlfieGirl on Apr 8, 2011 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is every site on SBN good? Hell no.

If ‘Habs Eyes on The Prize’ is a good site then why is their comments section a grave-yard every time I go over there?

It’s certainly a possibility that self-indulgent bullshit plays a part in the amount of engaged readers they have.

Cannot play with 'em, cannot win with 'em, cannot coach with 'em. Cant do it.

by Andrew J on Apr 8, 2011 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Leafs surge was on the backs of an entire team under the age of 28.
Also, since the Leafs don’t have their own first rounder it’s in their best interest to give Boston a worse draft pick
Ottawa ruined it’s own lottery pick, and missed a chance to add assets of real consequence to rebuild post-Alfredsson.

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by clrkaitken on Apr 9, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Leaf fans enjoy this signing because the Senators are exactly where the Leafs were in the summer of 2008 and you don’t realize it yet.

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by clrkaitken on Apr 9, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's a pretty tough argument to support

In 2008, the Leafs had Sundin, Tucker, Blake, and McCabe as the ‘old guard’, plus a mish-mash of other guys. And they had Toskala and Raycroft in nets. And they had the full ‘Muskoka Five’ still on the books.

Next year, the Senators will have Alfredsson, Phillips, Neil, and Spezza as their core, plus a lot of prospects and Craig Anderson in net.

The Maple Leafs in 2008 had virtually zero prospects in their system, after doing away with them all to acquire the older, underperforming players in their system. The reason why there was no growth for the Leafs was that it’s taken that long for them to build up some prospect depth, and even the depth they have now is challenged because you’re still trading away good picks.

Ottawa is in a better position. Some depth players are ready for the NHL, and some top prospects are going to start playing next year. It might still take a few years for the team to become a playoff threat, but they’re not starting from nothing.

An Ottawa Senators fan blogging at www.silversevensens.com

by Peter Raaymakers on Apr 9, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

You have two long-time players that are/were considered among the best in the league; Alfredsson, who’s a cornerstone of the franchise and won’t move (Sundin), and Spezza, a talented player with a high potential trade-value (Kaberle).

You have a couple of long-time pieces (Phillips, Neil) of your core, that a) aren’t getting any younger, b) aren’t the difference between the team contending, and c) have more value to a contender via trade (like Kubina and McCabe)

It looks like you have a goalie, although it should be pointed out that the Leafs of 2008 thought they had goaltending solutions in Toskala, too. You also thought you had your goaltending sorted with Leclaire two years ago, and Elliott last year. We’ll see on that one.

You’ve got a couple of promising prospects in Karlsson, Rundblad, Butler (Schenn, Grabovski, Kulemin) but at this moment in time they’re still largely unknown because they still have a lot of development to do. The remainder of the prospect pool doesn’t have much to be desired.

Once it became clear the Leafs were missing the 2008 playoffs, they started to move certain pieces to accumulate draft picks, and then the team’s play improved significantly enough in a meaningless run to move that pick up to No. 7 in that summer’s draft; for kicks, the Leafs did it again the following year. (Anderson single-handedly moved your pick this summer from 2 to 6.)

The Maple Leafs in 2008 had virtually zero prospects in their system

.
Neither do you.

after doing away with them all to acquire the older, underperforming players in their system

Which you’ve been doing for the past 2 years.

The reason why there was no growth for the Leafs was that it’s taken that long for them to build up some prospect depth

The reason there was no growth for the Leafs was historically bad goaltending.

and even the depth they have now is challenged because you’re still trading away good picks.

Yet the Leafs have 3 picks in the top 40 this year, and tonight will ice a full line-up where nobody is older than 29 years old.

Ottawa is in a better position. Some depth players are ready for the NHL, and some top prospects are going to start playing next year. It might still take a few years for the team to become a playoff threat, but they’re not starting from nothing.

Literally the only reason that Ottawa might be ahead of Toronto circa 2008 is Anderson, because goaltending covers many a sin. The fact remains I think I’ve done a pretty convincing of job of drawing parallels between Ottawa circa 2011 and Toronto circa 2008.

The biggest difference is that at that point MLSE figured out it might be worth breaking down the old guard and they brought in Burke a year later to build from the ground up (and say what you will about the Kessel deal and the plan’s success to date, there’s legitimate evidence that Burke has built through youth and that a foundation of something is in place). Melnyk still thinks this can be salvaged, and he’s kept the guy who ruined it to try and fix it.

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by clrkaitken on Apr 9, 2011 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m not trying to troll you guys, but as a fan who just watched this entire sequence of events unfold, it’s incredible to see another franchise follow us down this path.

This is basically where Toronto would have been if instead of getting fired in 2008, JFJ got a three-year extension.

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by clrkaitken on Apr 9, 2011 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Where’d I say you had virtually zero prospects?

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by clrkaitken on Apr 9, 2011 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Leafs in 2008 had Schenn, Kulemin, Grabovski and nobody else who could legitimately be counted on to be a NHLer of consequence. We’ve gotten lucky with Reimer and Gunnarsson and everyone else came from Burke.

Ottawa has Butler, Rundblad, and Karlsson. Who are the blue-chippers in Ottawa’s system I’m missing?

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by clrkaitken on Apr 9, 2011 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Our 1st round pick, Lehner and Cowen

An Ottawa Senators fan in Toronto, Ontario. I am cool like that.

by Adnan on Apr 9, 2011 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

We’ll give you Lehner. Cowen is a healthy scratch in the WHL not a blue-chipper.

The Leafs are my Rushmore
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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Apr 9, 2011 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Really?

Isn’t he their captain?

An Ottawa Senators fan in Toronto, Ontario. I am cool like that.

by Adnan on Apr 9, 2011 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

He is. I don’t follow the team closely but I recall reading about him being scratched a few times. He’s play 58 games this season so unless he was injured.

The Leafs are my Rushmore
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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Apr 9, 2011 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well he missed some games from playing for Canada too

An Ottawa Senators fan in Toronto, Ontario. I am cool like that.

by Adnan on Apr 9, 2011 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am unsure. But I wouldn’t call him a Blue-Chipper.

The Leafs are my Rushmore
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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Apr 9, 2011 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

depends on your definition of "blue-chipper"

if in 2008 Schenn, Grabovski, and Kulemin were blue-chippers for the Leafs, then Cowen is one for the Senators in 2011.

by HaBla on Apr 9, 2011 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

The team captain has 48 points in 58 games and your first instinct is that he was scratched?

Come on, dude. Cowen was not scratched in the WHL this year.

Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs

by Mark Parisi on Apr 9, 2011 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t follow the Chiefs so I didn’t know.
My bad.

The Leafs are my Rushmore
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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Apr 9, 2011 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

However he’s 21 why is he still in the WHL?

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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Apr 9, 2011 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

He was ineligible for the AHL

And not good enough for the NHL.

An Ottawa Senators fan in Toronto, Ontario. I am cool like that.

by Adnan on Apr 9, 2011 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's because of his birthday

He wasn’t eligible for AHL play this year.

Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs

by Mark Parisi on Apr 9, 2011 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ah.

The Leafs are my Rushmore
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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Apr 9, 2011 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Give me a break

As a Leaf fan, I expect you to have a bias against all things Senator, but it’s just sad and pathetic how far you take this bias.

“Cowen is a healthy scratch in the WHL not a blue-chipper.”

18 goals, 30 assists for 48 points, plus 44 in 58 games. That’s not a healthy scratch.

I’m not saying we should start calling him a blue-chip prospect or we should be getting the Calder ready for him, but I’d say he qualifies as a exciting prospect for next season. Comparable to your Schenn, Grabovski, Kulemin standard at the very least.

by HaBla on Apr 9, 2011 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

See above.

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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Apr 9, 2011 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

fair.

I respectfully accept your correction. :)

by HaBla on Apr 9, 2011 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

He’s still terrible though.

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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Apr 9, 2011 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Maple Leafs in 2008 had virtually zero prospects in their system

.

Neither do you.

Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs

by Mark Parisi on Apr 9, 2011 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Right. But would you say that you’ve got a solid group of prospects playing in Binghamton? I don’t know the Sens organization that well. I know there was this guy that your GM really wanted in 2009, Naz-something, did you guys draft him?

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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Apr 9, 2011 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree we could use Kadri

But from what I have heard (and I have no first hand knowledge), Cowen has had a dominant season in the WHL. This could just be because he is so much bigger than the other juniors, but still.

Also Kadri is a Habs fan, he will betray you in the end.

An Ottawa Senators fan in Toronto, Ontario. I am cool like that.

by Adnan on Apr 9, 2011 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Whether or not I would say that is not the point.

clrkaitken asked where he said that the Senators had virtually zero prospects in our system. I quoted where he said it. That’s all.

Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs

by Mark Parisi on Apr 9, 2011 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know, that’s why I said, Right. I was just asking you if you felt comfortable with your prospects.

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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Apr 9, 2011 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, if you're asking my opinion

No, I’m not comfortable with them. I think Rundblad, Weircioch, Cowen, Lehner, and Butler will all be NHL players, but I don’t know if any of them is a superstar. I think Lehner has the best chance, but we all know how risky goalies are.

In terms of potential, I like the guys Murray has drafted, but I don’t have any illusions that they’re all going to miraculously leap into fulltime NHL roles without mistakes anytime soon. They form a decent foundation, but that’s about all I’m willing to say at this point.

Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs

by Mark Parisi on Apr 9, 2011 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Which is why I think the Leafs comparison is fair. Again not trying to troll, just saying we’ve seen this before.

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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Apr 9, 2011 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't worry

Rational discussion isn’t considered trolling here, even if we don’t agree.

Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs

by Mark Parisi on Apr 9, 2011 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cowen was not the kid you wanted.
That better?

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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Apr 9, 2011 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm still OK with having him in our system

Neither of our teams are one player away from being a contender.

Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs

by Mark Parisi on Apr 9, 2011 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm pretty thrilled to have him

It’s hard with D prospects because they so often take a lot longer to develop. I never wanted Kadri, but I did wish for a while that Murray had picked Pajaarvi-Svensson instead. Now, after close to two years of development, I’m excited that we have him.

by HaBla on Apr 9, 2011 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

I fantasize about him leading a blueline of destruction

Freeing up Karlsson and MechaKarlsson to lead sick rushes up the ice.

Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs

by Mark Parisi on Apr 9, 2011 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I as well

It’d be great if Gryba or Schira made it too, so that Cowen gets some help bringing the pain with all that skill around.

by HaBla on Apr 9, 2011 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Magic Number Seven disapproves of this name

An Ottawa Senators fan in Toronto, Ontario. I am cool like that.

by Adnan on Apr 9, 2011 6:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

no,

some fool saved us the headache. A big thanks to Burke for that. Kadri’s alright, but we won’t be losing sleep over him.

by HaBla on Apr 9, 2011 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

The only thing I will say is that our group of prospects allowed us to do two things:

1) Raid Bingo and call up a bunch (how many? a dozen all told?) of prospects who held their own in their time in the NHL this season, and

2) Still have Bingo make the playoffs after we pilfer all of their best guys.

Oh Captain, my Captain!

by AlfieGirl on Apr 9, 2011 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, I would say that

And I’d say that the fact that a lot of the kids in Binghamton are first-year pros make it all the more impressive.

When the Senators didn’t draft Kadri, they selected Cowen—a formerly consensus top-three pick who fell in the draft because of an injury. I wasn’t overly disappointed with that ‘consolation’. Just because you’re somehow convinced Cowen won’t be a good NHLer doesn’t mean he won’t.

An Ottawa Senators fan blogging at www.silversevensens.com

by Peter Raaymakers on Apr 10, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

Thank you for getting that

I was occupied having my first patio beer of the season :)

Oh Captain, my Captain!

by AlfieGirl on Apr 9, 2011 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

From your comment directly above mine:
The Maple Leafs in 2008 had virtually zero prospects in their system

Neither do you.

Oh Captain, my Captain!

by AlfieGirl on Apr 9, 2011 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

You’re also leaving out guys who were playing in the NHL and still younger, Poni, Hagman, Steen, Stajan and Antropov who are all still more or less legit NHL forwards.

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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Apr 9, 2011 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

For the record, I don't discount the Leafs run

They do have a young nucleus of players, I believe 4 guys with 60+ points. But a lot depends on Reimer continuing his play for a full season.

You do have way better forwards than us, but our defensive prospects are much better than yours. Also, your beloved Luke Schenn is 2nd in the NHL in turnovers and 1st among defencemen. We have a #1 centre and no one else, you have four top 6 forwards.

Can Anderson keep up his play next season? I don’t know. But you don’t know if Reimer can either. I would say Anderson has a slightly bigger pedigree, though not by much.

We also have a top 5 pick (or 6th in a very unikely case). I would say the Leafs are equal of the Senators right now in terms of long term goals. The Leafs are more likely to make the playoffs next year though.

An Ottawa Senators fan in Toronto, Ontario. I am cool like that.

by Adnan on Apr 9, 2011 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Turnovers are a pretty subjective statistic. He also leads the NHL in hits and blocked shots so he’s no slouch.
I would argue our defensive prospects are stronger especially with guys like Gunnarsson and Aulie and Schenn who are all very young. We also have Gardiner and Blacker ready to make the jump in the next few years. Our top-6 D are all young though so we will be able to give our prospects more time to develop.
It’s doubtful that either Alfie or Spezza would be around for your next serious playoff run. Spezza would be, but his production would be starting to decline, why not move him now for a huge return?
All we’re trying to say is this looks really familiar and it did not turn out well.

The Leafs are my Rushmore
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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Apr 9, 2011 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Alfredsson won't be around but Spezza will be

Also, aren’t turnovers the main thing people mock Spezza for? Or at least used to.

I don’t see really see any good puck movers/offensive defencemen in Toronto. Are Gunnarsson and Aulie in that role? Even if so, they are no where near Karlsson, and hopefully Rundblad.

An Ottawa Senators fan in Toronto, Ontario. I am cool like that.

by Adnan on Apr 9, 2011 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gunnarsson yes Aulie no. We’re a little thin on puck movers since moving Kaberle. Both Gardiner and Blacker are offensive d-men. Plus if Phaneuf keeps up his second half play that’ll definitely help.

The Leafs are my Rushmore
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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Apr 9, 2011 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can see that there might be parallels

But at the end of the day, we’re talking about different players, so there’s no real guarantee the situation will turn out the same way.

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by Mark Parisi on Apr 9, 2011 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Very true.

The Leafs are my Rushmore
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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Apr 9, 2011 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would argue your defensive prospects are not better

Schenn is a good defenceman, but not a great one; I see him becoming Luke Richardson-esque, to be honest. I see him and Cowen turning into very similar players, actually.

Gunnarsson and Aulie are peons compared to Karlsson. Projections of Rundblad suggest he should be much better than them, too.

Gardiner is a bit of a wild card. I don’t know who Blacker is, or what style he plays. But the Senators also Patrick Wiercioch, Eric Gryba, and Craig Schira in the system. All five of those guys remain project players, so it’s tough to compare any of them.

An Ottawa Senators fan blogging at www.silversevensens.com

by Peter Raaymakers on Apr 10, 2011 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Let's start supporting our Senators

I think we as a city have to rally behind the decisions made by our organization. Obviously they have the best intentions in mind when they make hockey decisions. Melnyk is the best owner we could have asked for. A true fan of the game and avid supporter of our management team and players with the fans in mind. I agree some of our signings have not been for the better of the team the past few years, but instead were done to accommodate the fans. We have a slew of young top level talent defencemen coming up the pipeline this year. And now with 2 first round picks, potentially upwards of 4 second round picks and another 2 third round picks (not to mention later rounds) add in the ncaa free agent signings (i think we’ve had about 3 or 4 already) and all the money off the books? How can anyone complain about the Bryan Murray resigning after he’s done all that in about 2 months? Ottawa needs to stop beating our team down and start showing our full support.

by steveo1316 on Apr 8, 2011 6:42 PM EDT reply actions  

People are wary of the signing because, of the recent moves he's made, none are tangible yet

I think everyone is excited about the potential our prospects have, but as of right now it’s just that – potential. The credit people are giving Murray for re-stocking the system with good prospects is mainly speculation at this point. There’s no way to say for sure how good these moves have been.

Looking at it as objectively as I possibly can, Karlsson looks to be a home-run – and that’s about it. Nothing else is set in stone yet.

Cannot play with 'em, cannot win with 'em, cannot coach with 'em. Cant do it.

by Andrew J on Apr 8, 2011 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Butler is a line drive single at least

Maybe with two outs and nobody on, but a base hit nonetheless.

Trying to be Erik Karlsson's agent since October, 2010.

by Adnan on Apr 8, 2011 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah I hope so

But he’s also pulling essentially the same act as Regin last year, and Shannon the year before that.

Cannot play with 'em, cannot win with 'em, cannot coach with 'em. Cant do it.

by Andrew J on Apr 8, 2011 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

I understand people being skeptical, but if you look at this strictly as a starting point, I'd say we're well along

Sure they are just prospects, and yes they haven’t proven anything. But the two defencemen, Cowen and Rundblad were moves that Murray made. He traded last years first rounder for this guy, and a year later he ends up winning the top defencemen in the Swedish elite league with 50 pts in 55 games. Cowen originally slated to be a top 5 pick until his knee injury was a gamble that paid off as he is having a banner year for Spokane with 48 pts in 58 games. That’s 3 probable top 4 defencemen in 3 years (Karlsson beings the third.) As well I think it’s safe to say that Butler has shown much more than Regin has. Butler is legit, mind you playing along side Spezza I’m sure doesn’t hurt either.

by steveo1316 on Apr 8, 2011 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's definitely too soon to say Butler is legit

There’s just not a body of evidence to back up the claim.

Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs

by Mark Parisi on Apr 8, 2011 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Butler scores again

That’s a respectable 20 pts in 35 games for a rookie. Just sayin’.

by steveo1316 on Apr 9, 2011 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I love the kid

Don’t get me wrong. But 35 games isn’t enough to fairly call him a top guy, just like it wouldn’t be enough to call him a bust.

He sure as hell looks legit to me — I’ve been a believer since his ridiculous goal in Atlanta — but it’s just too soon to say one way or another.

Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs

by Mark Parisi on Apr 9, 2011 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

He needs to perform under pressure situation

Everyone on this team will be fighting not only to stay on the team next year but to make the playoffs. If he shows that same drive next year then we can crown him a success.

by Hockey Playoff Run SensFan on Apr 10, 2011 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Question

Is it a rule around here that you have to have a title to your comment?

This move is a bit of a head-scratcher. Murray’s done a lot of good (and bad) things for the Sens, I just got the feeling that it was time for a changing of the guard. I guess time will tell if this was the right move or not.

WE MISS YOU TOMAS

by daoust on Apr 8, 2011 11:54 PM EDT reply actions  

Nope, it's just kind of become the de facto standard around here

I do it mostly because I’m lazy and choose to type in the first text box available. No one will bat an eye if you don’t have titles on your comments. We do prefer titles on images as a courtesy to other users, though.

It was certainly the right opportunity for a changing of the guard, but clearly Melnyk has faith in Murray.

Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs

by Mark Parisi on Apr 9, 2011 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

Murray didn't trade draft picks for Stillman and Commodore

He traded Joe Corvo (disgruntled) and Patrick Eaves (expendable) to the Hurricanes for the pair. Could have been a good move if he’d resigned either.

by deaner11 on Apr 9, 2011 10:51 AM EDT reply actions  

Eaves is doing well in Detroit and Corvo could not handle the pressure of playing on a Canadian team. It took Eaves a while to find a role for himself and Detroit’s system has given him that.

by Hockey Playoff Run SensFan on Apr 9, 2011 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Eaves

can’t be seen as a mistake at this point. He was in limbo for quite a while before settling in as a bottom six contributor for the Red Wings. The Corvo-Eaves/Stillman-Commodore trade wasn’t bad. Too bad we couldn’t keep Stillman though.

by HaBla on Apr 9, 2011 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would've preferred to keep Commodore, personally

But that is solely because of his awesome Ronald McDonald hair. I loved seeing him skate around in the warmup without his helmet on.

Oh Captain, my Captain!

by AlfieGirl on Apr 10, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

TSN:

“Ottawa misses the playoffs for the second time in three seasons.”

Me:
“Ottawa misses the playoffs for the second time in FIFTEEN seasons.”
much easier to swallow. :)

by HaBla on Apr 9, 2011 6:03 PM EDT reply actions  

It is the Toronto Sports Network after all

They would not want to drive a knife into Leaf fans about the success of this team compared to theirs.

by Hockey Playoff Run SensFan on Apr 10, 2011 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

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