Grading the Senate Reform so far
Now that the trade deadline has come and gone, we can all see much of the activity Bryan Murray was going to do preparing for the Senate Reform. He was given a mantra to clear salary off the Ottawa Senators books, and bring in draft picks; there's no doubt he's done that. Gone are Mike Fisher, Chris Kelly, Jarkko Ruutu, Brian Elliott, Alex Kovalev, and Chris Campoli; incoming are a bunch of draft picks (one first, two seconds, a sixth, and a seventh) along with Craig Anderson, Curtis McElhinney, Marek Svatos, and Ryan Potulny.
It's pretty clear that much of the groundwork for the rebuild was laid over the last three weeks. With that in mind, a few of the editors here at Silver Seven decided to take a look back at what's happened so far, and give our thoughts on the best and worst moves so far in the Senate Reform, as well as an overall grade for Murray for his rebuild. Here goes:
1. What has been the best move Murray has made so far in the Senate Reform?
Darren: Campoli for Potulny/2nd: I didn't want Campoli to be traded, but it was a necessity given Phillips' extension and the logjam on D presented by the bad contracts and incoming prospects. A second round pick alone would be good value for Campoli, and getting a solid depth player in Potulny so that Ottawa can send a player back to Binghamton is icing on the cake.
(Keep reading... )
Ryan: Campoli to Chicago. Murray was never going to get for Campoli what he initially paid for him, but after re-signing Phillips and striking out on selling Kuba, a roster space needed to be cleared. Campoli was the guy who could (a) be moved most easily, and (b) get the best value in return. The second-round pick is great, and if Ryan Potulny works out and is retained, it's a pretty big win.
Mark: Short term I think it's clearly the swap of Brian Elliott for Craig Anderson. That's looking like a massive upgrade. Of course, if Anderson isn't retained, it's all for naught. So thinking long term, my answer is the Mike Fisher trade. We have a lot of draft selections in our quiver now, and none are going to have more value than Nashville's first rounder. I was concerned with that trade initially because I didn't feel we'd necessarily get a player of Fisher's caliber with the pick(s) we got in return. Now I feel we have the ammunition to move in the draft, and the player we pick as a result of those moves will have a much better chance of long-term impact.
Peter: I think it's got to be Fisher for a first in 2011 and the conditional pick in 2012. Don't get me wrong, Fisher was great, but even if he wasn't dealt, his contract was up in two seasons--two seasons which, in all likelihood, will be struggles for Ottawa anyway. After that, who knows if he'd re-sign in Ottawa? What Murray did by dealing Fisher now was trading while the value was high, and he got some good value out of it. He also assured that if this year's first rounder is too high in the draft, we'll still get good value by earning that conditional pick for 2012 (which is based on how the Nashville Predators do in the playoffs).
2. What has been the worst move for Murray so far during the rebuild?
Ryan: Brian Elliott for Craig Anderson. Let me make this clear: if this were any other season, I'd be planning a parade to celebrate this trade. Anderson has a chip on his shoulder and has played lights out, delivering arguably the single-greatest goaltending performance by a Senator in team history in his very first game. My problem with this is that it's sabotaging the tank. Andy has been too good, while Brian Elliott has been helping Colorado tumble down the standings. I want my lottery pick to be as high as possible.
Mark: I think it's the waiver claim of Curtis McElhinney. I don't see how it helps Robin Lehner's development to sit behind Barry Brust in the AHL.
Peter: I have a hard time choosing a bad one, to be honest. There were players I didn't want to see dealt (Fisher, Kelly, and Campoli being the foremost), but the return on those three makes the deals palatable to me. Since I have to choose one, I'll say the Svatos pick-up; he hasn't looked comfortable, and there were other players available off waivers to fill out the roster.
Darren: Kovalev for a 7th. I recognize that there was value in getting rid of Kovalev's salary for the rest of the season, but I have to think that a team would have gotten desperate close to the deadline and offered more for him.
3. How would you grade Murray's work over the past few weeks?
Mark: B. I think he did a good job of getting value for his players. He has set the next GM -- even if it's himself -- up with a ton of cap space and draft picks, which are the building blocks of Senate Reform. Still, we wouldn't be having this roundtable if he had done a better job with his previous trades and signings, so there's that. All in all, he picked up a mess made by both John Muckler and himself, and I think that's pretty admirable.
Peter: A-. He's done remarkably well; some have said it's the best core blow-up they've seen in recent history. Still, he wasn't able to move Filip Kuba or Sergei Gonchar, and although I think those two can bounce back next season, they won't be around when the team needs them. If they aren't moved in the off-season, they'll just be stealing roster spots that would be better occupied on a rebuilding team by young players. Although in his defence, selling either of Kuba or Gonchar at this point would be selling at their ultimate low, in all likelihood.
Darren: B+. Murray had a job to ship out salary and build up picks for the future, and he did a good job of that, and got good value for most of the pieces he moved.
Ryan: B+. Loved that he managed to dump salary at an alarming rate while bringing in a bucketload of picks in return. Didn't like that he couldn't pull off a minor miracle and get rid of players like Filip Kuba (this alone would have boosted him to at least an A-). I'm not a fan of Marek Svatos, even if he's just a warm body to finish the season with. I don't think he got enough for Kovalev, but Murray didn't hold all the cards on that one. He cut ties on lifetime players, and that takes guts in a city like Ottawa.
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Agree with Ryan on the goalie swap
This team is not going to be competitive this year or next for sure, and with most moveable assets gone the draft is the best chance to get future star players (forwards in particular). My ideal would be an Elliot-McElhinney tandem or something like that — let the kids develop chemistry on the ice and just put a body in net who’s not going to singlehandedly steal games and ruin our draft position.
by Desario is a freak on Mar 1, 2011 7:18 AM EST reply actions
I guess, but you want the fans engaged too
No one will pay to see games if you’re guaranteed horrible goaltending.
Oh Captain, my Captain!
Somewhat agree
In an ideal world, the Avalanche would have tried to send Anderson down to the minors with two weeks left in the season and Ottawa would have plucked him off the wire like they did with McElhinney. At that point, the Sens would be well and truly entrenched in second last place. Oh well, having picked up McE, they have to play him, right? Don’t want Anderson overworked…. ;)
One more unfortunate side effect of Anderson’s great play is that his price tag for being re-signed is going up by the game.
On the plus side(gotta find some silver lining), at least the young guys can concentrate on showing whether they are good or not without having to worry about bailing out their sieve of a goal keeper.
I just have a hard time buying in to that line of thinking
We’re the second-lowest scoring team in the NHL already. Our defense next year is basically the same crew or the same crew and two rookies. I have high hopes for both Cowen and MechaKarlsson, but there’s a learning curve in this league. We saw it with Karlsson last year. Hell, we’re still seeing it this year. To me, having a better guy in nets just means that next year we’re losing games 4-2 instead of 5-1.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
You may well be right, but winning 3 out of 4 lately is a bad sign for those on the tanking bandwagon.
Let's see what happens against Boston tonight
I might change my tune, but I don’t think we’re a few saves away from competing with the best teams in the league. And if we are, hey, Senate Reform over!
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
Yeah, we’ll see how it goes. Looking at the rest of the schedule Ottawa has plenty of tough games left against playoff bound teams(Bruins, Lightning, Flyers etc) and teams that have been hot in the 2nd half of the season(Sabres, Devils). They have a couple more games against the Panthers, but other than that it is all teams bound for the playoffs or on the cusp(I am generously including the Leafs in that latter category).
Despite comfortably beating Philly
I don’t think that we’re a few saves away from competing with the best, either; I’m just worried that we’re going to be competing with the Leafs and Thrashers, stuck in useless mediocrity.
by Desario is a freak on Mar 1, 2011 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
On the other hand
I think having Elliott back there was actually setting the team back, and really hurting the confidence of everyone. With a good ‘tender like Anderson protecting our rookies from feeling like they’re useless, we help their development. Elliott letting in softies was hurting the team’s confidence through the whole season, I think.
An Ottawa Senators fan blogging at www.silversevensens.com
by Peter Raaymakers on Mar 1, 2011 9:45 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
100% agree
I just cant cheer for this team to lose. I feel we have at the very least 3 overall locked up, even if we win some games, but likely still 2nd overall. If anderson is all it takes to pull us back to respectability, why are we blowing up the roster anyway?
http://ottawasconsensus.blogspot.com/
Also agree
Elliott’s soft goals deflated the team just like Gerber’s used to. That’s not an environment I want for developing our young players.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
Pretty much
I am just so happy I don’t have to scream “God damn it Elliott” any more. It was painful viewing.
Trying to be Erik Karlsson's agent since October, 2010.
And I no longer have to scream "Good for you! You got one!" whenever Elliott makes a save.
Oh Captain, my Captain!
I don't think the McElhinney acquisition was that bad
From what I’ve heard, Brust has been hurt so Lehner won’t just be sitting back up – and regardless of whether it should’ve been McElhinney or someone else, Bingo needed another goalie from us since Snoopy’s still not well. Now that Lehner’s back in the AHL, he can actually play some games.
And Ryan – come on! The Elliott trade wasn’t nearly enough to sabotage the tank on its own. Especially now that we’ve traded away Campoli, I’m pretty sure the rest of the team can still play badly enough to lose despite Andy.
Oh Captain, my Captain!
Don't forget about Not Martin
Really, I just want Lehner to play. A lot. As long as that happens, I’m happy. But I don’t see how he could be starting over a healthy Brust for the BSens.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
He will if management orders it
by Hockey Playoff Run SensFan on Mar 1, 2011 9:45 AM EST up reply actions
I may be wrong (since I don't watch Bingo play), but I thought Not Martin had also had issues all year
I heard Bingo signed some tryout contract from Elmira last weekend. To me, that indicates that Lehner will get solid ice time now that he’s back there.
Oh Captain, my Captain!
Healthy Brust being the key part there
And signing a tryout contract from Elmira would indicate that they have a not-so-healthy Brust on their hands.
Besides, the last thing you want to do is ride a goalie too hard down the stretch so he’s banged up and worn out when the playoffs start. See: Vancouver Canucks last year.
Oh Captain, my Captain!
not to mention injury to Michalek
http://ottawasconsensus.blogspot.com/
True say
Although, for the sake of my fantasy hockey pool I’m hoping Michalek is back ASAP.
Oh Captain, my Captain!
State your source.
It’s not listed on the Sens webpage from what I can see, and my 9th place spot in my fantasy league (of 13) means that I’ll refuse to believe I’ve lost someone for good until I see it from BMur or Clouston personally.
Oh Captain, my Captain!
Here you go
Although technically Murray only said:
“He’s hurting,” said Murray, “and he probably won’t play again for a while.”
Trying to be Erik Karlsson's agent since October, 2010.
We have 20 games left
He is out for a “while”. Maybe you will see him for 6-7 games.
Trying to be Erik Karlsson's agent since October, 2010.
That's still not done for the season!
At least not for sure. 9th out of 13th! I need some hope that I can move up in this stupid pool.
Oh Captain, my Captain!
Is it a cummulative pool?
Or a head to head pool?
If it has playoffs over the last few weeks of the real season then it might be worth waiting around I guess.
But from Murray’s words, I wouldn’t be surprised if he doesn’t play again (along with Alfie).
Trying to be Erik Karlsson's agent since October, 2010.
No playoffs
And I don’t know what cumulative/head to head means. This is my first foray into fantasy hockey. But we can’t trade anyway so it’s not like I have any options other than to hope Michalek comes back.
Oh Captain, my Captain!
Oh, you can't pick up people that no one has?
Trying to be Erik Karlsson's agent since October, 2010.
Nope. Once we drafted, we were stuck
I suppose that I should be happy I had Michalek til now. A friend has Markov, and someone else lost a guy for the season like a month ago.
Oh Captain, my Captain!
Oh
You should join our Yahoo fantasy league next season.
Much more fun. :D
Trying to be Erik Karlsson's agent since October, 2010.
It's been a learning curve
I’ve really only started paying attention to players from other teams this season. Hence sticking to a novice fantasy pool.
Although maybe. I’ll have to figure out if I understand the rules at all :)
Oh Captain, my Captain!
I would never know Keith Yandle has 54 points as a defenceman
If it weren’t for fantasy hockey.
In fact…I likely wouldn’t know who the frak is Keith Yandle.
Trying to be Erik Karlsson's agent since October, 2010.
cool! i didn't know you guys did a Yahoo league!
i suck at H2H leagues (save for the year i won one) but rock your socks at straight-up points leagues.
These are the only kinds of hockey pools I’ll play anymore
Hockey Blog Adventure: New Post: The KABERLE Era has begun! (I'm also on Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Mar 1, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
If “Getting Andersoned” is anything like the last time out against him, I’m okay with that.
Hockey Blog Adventure: New Post: The KABERLE Era has begun! (I'm also on Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Mar 1, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
Side-note: Who’s your backup if Anderson goes out after 2 periods?
Hockey Blog Adventure: New Post: The KABERLE Era has begun! (I'm also on Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Mar 1, 2011 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
That guy we picked up yesterday
Curtis McElhinney.
I know, I know…
Trying to be Erik Karlsson's agent since October, 2010.
Really hoping to see the new guys Ottawa got tonight
Hockey Blog Adventure: New Post: The KABERLE Era has begun! (I'm also on Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Mar 1, 2011 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
Is Timmy starting or Rask?
I have Timmy in 4 leagues, but Rask too in one.
Trying to be Erik Karlsson's agent since October, 2010.
Rask started last game, so likely Thomas
Hockey Blog Adventure: New Post: The KABERLE Era has begun! (I'm also on Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Mar 1, 2011 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
But I am anticipating a trap game.
Hockey Blog Adventure: New Post: The KABERLE Era has begun! (I'm also on Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Mar 1, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
Knee surgery last year and now some kind of foot injury
No chance for the playoffs. Why rush him back? He should be done just to give him an extra month to heal.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
I disagree (obviously)
I’ve seen Anderson take a team far further than they deserved to be. If we can’t score, having a goalie who can win games purely by not letting in goals… well, it’s bad.
Now, take that with a grain of salt. I love what Andy brings to the table. I still honestly think that Andy alone could cost us a spot or two in the standings. There’s still ~20 games left. I don’t have confidence that the Islanders can keep winning and holding us off from 28th.
Trade Snakeline Day - Silver Seven - The Classic Blog
Good conversation
Thanks for this. I like the diversity of opinion in the conversation.
I will add my unsolicited feedback and give Murray a solid “A”. I give him top marks for moving guys in a classy fashion while also getting a good return. All the guys that got sent out of town landed in good situations for them and at the same time the Sens got good value and are now well positioned for the draft and beyond. The classic “win-win” scenario. I think that kind of intangible “good will” is valuable to the organization’s stature in the league(and especially amongst players) since the next couple of years might be ugly.
I am looking forward to seeing what Potulny can do and I hope the Sens re-sign Anderson, especially if he is going to ruin their tanking strategy. Lastly, I don’t mind the fact that Gonchar and Kuba ended up not getting traded. Clearly it would have been better for them to get out of a rebuilding situation, but this way they can rebuild their value next year and give the Sens some assets to trade at next year’s deadline.
This is a good point
The way Murray moved guys out of town was as impressive as the fact that he was able to move so many. Good on him for trying to find good fits for the individuals he sent out.
An Ottawa Senators fan blogging at www.silversevensens.com
by Peter Raaymakers on Mar 1, 2011 9:47 AM EST up reply actions
On the Kelly trade
We got a second round for him because Chiarelli knew exactly what he was getting and had a need for a two way player who’s good in the playoffs and makes your third line automatically better than most other teams.
by Hockey Playoff Run SensFan on Mar 1, 2011 9:56 AM EST up reply actions
Although I agree that our tanking this year will be harder with Anderson in net...
I do see why Murray did it. He wanted Anderson to have a try-out. And what better situation to really test a goalie than with a really bad defence like ours? Also, when players know they don’t have to pay extra attention to their goalie, it allows them with ease to play their role better, which in turn helps the creation of relationships between the players on the ice. It helps them focus on their own mistakes and learn with out getting distracted by “OMG I need to save the goalie”.
Ideally, my win-win would be to lose games but with close scores… this is a plus for Anderson without really hiking up his price, and it’s a plus for the tank that we all want so badly.
Svatos has played 2 games (right?), even though he does look awkward, I am willing to wait and see how or if he fits. I am looking forward to seeing what Potulny will do on the ice as well.
I think Murray did do a good job of fixing some mistakes, clearing a decent amount of cap room, and bringing in picks. I would have to say that the Kovalev trade was the worst out of the bunch, I really thought he would garner something higher.
Overall, Murray has been brave and firm, and that is what the team and fans need to see for reassurance during the rebuild.
by Los Blancos Chicca on Mar 1, 2011 8:42 AM EST reply actions
amen to the brave
this is a town that is hockey MAD. its all we have, and we attach ourselves to lifetime players. to trade away guys like fisher and kelly takes guts.
http://ottawasconsensus.blogspot.com/
It's true.
I think my favourite thing about BMur in this rebuild has been the gusto with which he did it. No hesitation, just balls-to-the-wall effort to move anyone he could possibly move.
Oh Captain, my Captain!
I liked pretty much every move he made except the re-signing
I will give him a B+. Now that I have had time to cool down and not be so pissed off about the signing (I get a bit emotional about the Sens)…here is my crazy plan:
If we are going to keep Phillips around (and expect him to bounce back) then I would be open to trading Jared Cowen.
Before you call me crazy here is my argument:
- only one of Edmonton and Islanders are going to get Larsson, and they both need a defenceman (and Colorado for that matter)
- we have pretty good defensive prospects already, and I would rate Rundblad higher than Cowen because he is playing against men rather than 16-19 year olds
- Rundblad can be a two way defenceman, he is not small like Karlsson
- if we packaged Nashville’s pick with Cowen, we might be able to get the top 2 picks in the draft
We would have Gonchar-Karlsson, Kuba-Rundblad, Phillips-Lee (or some other combo)
Or if you can trade Kuba, then Carkner…but that is a bit weak. I wouldn’t trade Kuba until next deadline.
Our top 6 could be Spezza, Michalek, Butler, Alfredsson, Landeskog, Nugent-Hopkins
And we still have the 32nd pick to draft another defenceman.
Trying to be Erik Karlsson's agent since October, 2010.
by Adnan on Mar 1, 2011 9:03 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Yowza
That 32nd pick would be a few years away from contributing.
I also don’t like the idea of trading away defensive depth as soon as we have some. I would prefer to keep Cowen, trade into the top 10 again and do something like Landeskog-Strome. We have a need at center but we don’t need to draft a projected #1 guy — we already have one.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
I agree... I wouldn't trade Cowen.
We have been lacking defensive defencemen on D and now that we have a few prospects doesn’t mean I would trade them. Why not revamp the offense using trades and the draft picks we already have? I would go for something Mark suggested instead.
by Los Blancos Chicca on Mar 1, 2011 9:46 AM EST up reply actions
It's a balancing act
You still need multiple creative guys.
Do you think Cowen + Nashville would be enough for #1 overall pick anyway?
Trying to be Erik Karlsson's agent since October, 2010.
True but they could get 2 solid defencemen that way
Which might be better if they have no defencemen.
Trying to be Erik Karlsson's agent since October, 2010.
Probably not
Everything I’ve read about Larsson says he’s the most NHL-ready of any of this year’s draft. It’s possible that offer would be enough to entice one of the top five teams that missed out on Larsson, but again, I don’t see the logic in giving up a top prospect to draft a #1 center when we have a #1 center in Jason Spezza. Keeping Cowen and taking a slightly lower projected player to anchor the second line in the future makes a lot more sense to me. Ryan Strome isn’t a bad playmaker himself.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
+1
Also, the Sens are not deep in good defensive defensemen. Sure, you can get ok guys as FAs(Kubinas or Gills), but a guy like Pronger/Phillips(in his prime)/Scott Stevens/etc doesn’t come around often. If you have a guy that might be close to that, I don’t think you trade him unnecessarily.
Agree with you Mark
as usual. Lando-Strome would be ideal.
http://ottawasconsensus.blogspot.com/
Also acceptable to me:
Lando-Armia, Lando-Jensen
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
no centres there?
And at this point Im hoping the Preds keep losing/we trade up and grab strome. He’s got that high end offensive skill/creativity that excites fans. If we grab Lando, for all of his intangibles, I hope we grab a creative centre as well.
question. would you be good with RNH-Armia or RNH-Jensen?
http://ottawasconsensus.blogspot.com/
Nope, my personal preference here is for wingers. Big wingers.
Lando-Strome is my ideal draft as well, but if we can’t get him, both Armia and Jensen are 6’3" with good offensive skills. I like the thought of their strength after a year or two in a pro conditioning regimen.
I suppose I’d be good with RNH as well. I don’t think anyone can deny his talent. My personal preference is Couturier because he’s bigger and I think he’s a better playmaker based on the youtube highlight clips I’ve seen. But again, I’d prefer not to draft a top center if we can get a very good one slightly later in the draft. I was sure we’d need Couturier, but now that we have ammo to move, I’m back on the Landeskog bandwagon.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
interesting.
i’m big on RNH. I just think he’s got a dynamic aspect to his game that sets him apart from some of the other forwards. sportsnet had a red deer game on when I was home for reading week, and he just jumps out at you, effortless all over the ice, and always a threat (suprisingly good on the defensive side of the puck too). Also, due to his size, I can see him starting as a winger at first, playing with a stronger centre (like Duchene and Skinner both did)
I started off wanting lando, back when it looked like we’d pick 4th, and I’m not opposed to now, I guess I just have a soft spot for RNH.
http://ottawasconsensus.blogspot.com/
Don't get me wrong
I feel like any of those three is like the difference between getting your cash in gold or jewels. If we wind up with RNH I won’t complain except for in the immediate moment. I just have a soft spot for big wings. I think they help win playoff games.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
Your thinking short term
It will take a few years for this rebuild and by then Phillips will be gone. Cowen will then be coming into his own and replace Phillips who will probably go to another team or retire. The Phillips signing was obviously to keep some leadership at the back end until the entire group of veterans is replaced.
by Hockey Playoff Run SensFan on Mar 1, 2011 9:52 AM EST up reply actions
Well the forwards are long term
And I think top 3/top 6 forwards are much more difficult to come by than a defensive defenceman. Although, looking at Cowen’s numbers, he might be an all around defenceman.
In any case, we are in desperate need of high end forwards.
Trying to be Erik Karlsson's agent since October, 2010.
When the back end is ready
The Sens could always get a few free agents who might actually want to come here based on the treatment our core players got this year and the fact that this team will be contending. That is a possible scenario of the future plus the couple of high draft pick we will have at that point.
by Hockey Playoff Run SensFan on Mar 1, 2011 10:00 AM EST up reply actions
As much as offensive guys steal the headlines, it is the solid blueline depth that generally propels teams to great success. Look at Chicago last year, Kane and Toews got the headlines, but Seabrook, Keith and the defense were the key guys that got them through to the finals and finished off the Flyers. That kind of top quality defender is not a dime a dozen.
I am not so sure
You need both, I would argue more offence as it is tougher to acquire.
Chicago was 3rd in the playoffs at 3.48 goals/game, and 7th with 2.76 goals allowed/game.
Plus as you said, offensive guys steal the headlines. For a rebuilding team with plenty of losses, that gets the crowd a lot more excited in the case of loss after loss. If we need to get both anyway, might as well get the “exciting” part first.
Trying to be Erik Karlsson's agent since October, 2010.
Next year’s Sens should have a fair bit of excitement already with Alfredsson back, Spezza-Butler(seems to be a good pairing), Karlsson, Rundblad and hopefully Anderson’s ninja-goalie show. Assuming guys like Condra will be on the team, then the Sens will also have a better skating game to sell to fans. And don’t forget that prospects like Wick and Silfverberg will get a look. Next year’s team may not be that good, but they should be more entertaining than this year’s team.
I agree
i already find the team way more entertaining than earlier. We have some really good young depth players – as long as they keep that up when the games matter! We just need to see some real offensive studs develop/come into the organisation; then i think it will be clear we’re on the road to recovery.
we’ll see if we’re as bad off there or not. Phillips needs to regain his form and assuming he does he’s been as good a shut-down D as there is. This would have to be the direction of Lee’s development, imo, if he’s going to stick in the NHL, Carkner can do this, and, it will be a couple of years, Cowen showed in the WJC that that is largely his game. Even assuming we have to replace a Lee cause he can’t fit the bill, those type of D have moved around in the last few years (Michalek, Seidneberg, etc.) so i’m sure there would be an FA we could grab if it was needed.
I think thats what Lee has to do. He needs to fix his game, gain some weight in the off season and really work on being a stay at home solid defenceman.
Yeah, Lee-Phillips has been a pretty good combination the last few weeks. I like the idea of Phillips-Cowen down the road. It is a little silly designing next years combinations now, but here goes anyway (in no particular order):
Phillips – Cowen/Lee (shutdown pairing)
Gonchar – Rundblad (top offensive pairing)
Karlsson – Kuba/Carkner (by default)
Gonchar, Karlsson, Rundblad and Kuba would run the powerplay
Phillips, Cowen, Lee, Carkner, Kuba, Gonchar would kill penalties
The following year (with no Gonchar or Kuba) things would be more balanced:
Phillips-Cowen (shutdown)
Rundblad-Wiercioch (2 way pairing)
Karlsson-Lee (hopefully Lee has settled down by then)
I agree that we are in desperate need of high end forwards
But we don’t have to get them all in this draft.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
More rational elaboration: Trading Cowen will drive the fans away.
Leaving aside for a moment the people like us who read Sens blogs and can actually name a handful of prospects, the bulk of the fans know exactly one prospect for the Senators: World Juniors player Jared Cowen.
You trade him, and you’re going to lose a lot of the goodwill in this city towards the rebuild. Keep in mind that a lot of Ottawa fans have pulled away in the last few seasons – they’ve stopped going to games and they’re already less inclined to spend money on the team. With a rebuild in the pipes, the team CANNOT afford to alienate those fans further! People who know their hockey are one thing, but how many of the regulars on here are in Ottawa and shell out for tickets regularly? A third, maybe? I’m not disbarraging fans in other cities (I actually think it’s awesome), but this rebuild needs to keep the fans who are here and who buy tickets on board. To be blunt, a lot of them don’t know all that much about hockey (as evidenced by a lot of kickback after the Fisher trade), and I just can’t see a Cowen trade being a good move for a team that’s already struggling to sustain its fan base in its home town.
Oh Captain, my Captain!
Maybe initially
But the fans also thought “Who the hell is Erik Karlsson?” when he was drafted in the draft held in Ottawa.
And many love Karlsson now. It’s all about talent in the end, they will be happy if we get two young exciting forwards.
Also, while Nugent-Hopkins didn’t make the team, Couturier did make Team Canada.
Trying to be Erik Karlsson's agent since October, 2010.
It is all about talent, but you need something to keep them buying tickets through that initial period
And for now that’s Jared Cowen. I just think things are WAY too precarious when it comes to the local fanbase and ticket sales to start talking about moving the only familiar name out of the bunch of prospects.
All of which ignores the fact that Cowen is a big, defensively-minded guy, and that’s something missing from our roster (arguably, maybe) that I’m excited to have back. I’ve been waiting for Cowen for a couple of years now. I don’t want to trade him just when he’s ready so I can spend the next couple of years waiting for some new kid to be ready.
Oh Captain, my Captain!
+1
If Cowen can become a top-level physical defensive defender(which looks possible) then that is a fairly rare comodity. I wouldn’t mind trying to trade Nashville’s pick plus a couple of seconds(the Chicago and Boston ones) to try and move into the top 10 if there is a stud that Murray really thinks will work out.
Agree with the comments on Kovalev
I think a 7th was a bit weak for Kovalev, people know that he shows up to play in the playoffs and his value could have been higher closer to the deadline.
Everything else works pretty well, I would have like to see Phillips traded and come back in the summer, that would have been ideal.
Compared to other rebuilds, I’d give BM a solid A- hindered only by not being able to move Kuba, poor return on Kovalev and the signing of Phillips (which I like but could have worked out better for the organization).
I think the grading is about right
Also agree with the Kovalev deal being the worst of a pretty good lot.
I think the contracts to Kuba and Gonchar made the moves about the best that could be made. Unfortunately, Murray’s propensity to be a “good guy” on resignings meant that we had to watch really solid value transition and depth pieces go (sniff, sniff, Campoli!!) instead of those we wish could have gone. If we could have swapped a Kuba or Gonchar dump and keeping Campoli, Murray might have deserved a knighthood.
As has been discussed on other boards, i think off-season buy-outs of Kuba and/or Gonchar would be a mistake. Better to bank on them turning their game around and hopefully being invigorated by playing with a bunch of young whipper-snappers. That change in atmosphere from a miserable underperforming whale might just be enough. Then, next year we can hopefully see Cowan and Rundblad find their way into the line-up and see at least one of Kuba/Gonchar get moved.
i’m really – hopefully! – looking forward to watching our youth movement flourish. Here’s hoping Butler keeps going and doesn’t do the Regin-slump next year, that Regin regains his form, Lee continues to develop at, at least, his tortoise-like pace, that Shannon continues his surprising play, etc.
I can't imagine anyone legitimately suggesting a buyout of Gonchar
I can’t even get my head to start thinking in a way where there’s a logical justification for that kind of move.
I would love to see where that was posted.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
No, I'd be fine with keeping him
Although for Gonchar’s sake I think it would be nice to move him. Dude didn’t sign on to mentor through a rebuild.
Oh Captain, my Captain!
Yeah, if he asked for a trade I wouldn't hold any grudges
But spending more money just to get rid of him isn’t something that makes sense to me.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
I think he could be useful
I am interested to see how he does with the team not a complete mess. We have a goalie, we have Spezza, Butler and Condra doing decently, although Michalek being gone hurts.
Hopefully he can help Karlsson rediscover his play on the power play.
Trying to be Erik Karlsson's agent since October, 2010.
No, there's no way it makes sense to buy him out
Regardless of his play, his mentoring Karlsson is plenty of reason to keep him here.
But if someone else will let him actually play to win a Cup, then I’m happy to send him on his way.
Oh Captain, my Captain!
the suggestion of buying out one of the other of Kuba/Gonch was in a thread here
i read it and responded to it that i didn’t think it was a good idea.
Sorry – i said other boards and meant threads.
Anyway, we’re clearly all in agreement.
Kuba could be a different story
I’m on the fence with that buyout. I see the logic of keeping him and hoping he rebounds so we can trade him next year, but I also want his roster spot.
Oh Captain, my Captain!
I'm gonna find who said this
And subscribe them to Uppercuts Illustrated.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
by Mark Parisi on Mar 1, 2011 2:50 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
hahaha rec'd
http://ottawasconsensus.blogspot.com/
the kuba buyout I suggested as a possibility
as did others. i’ve since changed my tune slightly. and I suggested Gonchar may not be so inclined to stick around, so we may end up trading him, but I dont remember seeing anyone suggest we buy out Gonch. and I;ve been on the site A LOT recently. Need to procrastinate my midterms after all…
http://ottawasconsensus.blogspot.com/
I give Murray an A on the rebuild so far.
As much as I would have loved to see Kuba or even Gonchar moved, it just wasn’t realistic with their contracts. I’m not in love with the terms, but I’m happy about the Phillips extension and considering where the team will be over the course of the deal I get it.
I debated an A- because I really think he could have done better with Kovalev, but in the end I went with an A because there were two deals that wowed me: Elliott for Anderson, and Campoli and a 7th for a second and Potulny. Both are amazing deals, as far as I’m concerned, and the rest of the moves were solid.
IMO, if next year’s draft is done well, it could be the reboot this team needs. Which leaves us with a year or two to groom the picks and prospects and get back in contention. Really, I couldn’t have asked for anything more from BMur. He needed to blow up the team and he did it, while doing enough (in my mind, anyway) to keep the fans engaged next season.
Oh Captain, my Captain!
I would dip into the C grades...
…until at least the draft. I think until such time as this team no longer has $25M still tied up in veteran contracts – Neil, Kuba, Gonchar, Spezza, Alfredsson, Phillips – I don’t think this went as far as it should. None of those players, save for maybe Spezza, are good enough or young enough to build around, and they also won’t help you win now. It’s tough for me to rate Murray, because I don’t want him to trade players just for the sake of it – meaning, he probably just didn’t receive any worthwhile offers – but all I see is a weak 1st rounder and a couple of 2nds in a weak draft. That’s not enough to launch a rebuild.
Add to that the needless pickup of Anderson, and I’m pessimistic. Why would Anderson sign in Ottawa, and who is Brian Murray to offer him a contract? Why wasn’t he flipped for a pick at the deadline? Why is Murray again talking about signing a top six forward? It’s starting to sound like this team is returning to the sneak-in-as-a-low-seed strategy. Rebuilding needs to be from the ground up, and trading away a couple of centers, an agitator, a useless winger, and a third pairing D is not a complete rebuild.
I say C-, unless there’s more trades at the draft.
I don't think grading of the Senate Reform should be based on contracts that were signed before this season, personally.
If we’re evaluating Murray’s tenure as GM, that’s one thing. But the Gonchar signing has nothing to do with the Senate Reform, as far as I’m concerned. Murray was given consistent direction up until a month or two ago, and it was certainly not to rebuild. I don’t think it’s at all fair to evaluate his success in the rebuild as including the Gonchar signing or the Neil extension.
Do you actually think Murray could have moved Gonchar with two years left on his overpriced (at least the way he’s played this season) deal?
Oh Captain, my Captain!
Melnyk is trusting Murray
Your right about Murray having been given direction for a playoff run and that those signing had more to do with winning a cup than building to the future. I also like that he has been given a green light to make the moves necessary to build towards that future. Sometimes I look at some of the draft moves made and think that he knew this was coming and was already planing for this year. He has a great head start as he did not sell our assets to get players, that would have been disastrous a la Leafs.
by Hockey Playoff Run SensFan on Mar 1, 2011 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t understand how we can evaluate a rebuild without looking at contracts signed before the season. I did say that maybe Murray just didn’t get any good offers, and I’m not rating Murray so much as the rebuild itself. I don’t think Ottawa is doing a real rebuild right now. There could be a lot of reasons for that, and perhaps no one is at fault. But we still have a ton of expensive veterans and not as many picks as I would like. I’m not going to give an A for a late 1st rounder from Nashville. The only really valuable rebuilding asset comes from the team being awful.
It's not a late 1st rounder
Currently it is 13th, which is better than average.
Trying to be Erik Karlsson's agent since October, 2010.
agreed.
We got karlsson at 15, Rundblad was originally a 17th…and while those were undoubtably better drafts, I wouldnt dismiss a potential top 15 pick. Add to it that while this draft isnt the strongest #15-30, from 30-90 is better than in most years (in terms of depth).
Lastly, having THREE second round picks just increases the likelihood of finding someone very strong in there, not to mention these picks can be packaged together to move up.
Sorry Varada, just not buying what you are selling.
http://ottawasconsensus.blogspot.com/
I completely disagree that Ottawa's not doing a real rebuild
There’s a small contingent of leadership players (Alfie, Spezza, Phillips, maybe Neil) that Murray deliberately kept, but anyone else who’s left is here because they’re part of the rebuild or because we couldn’t move them. Realistically we had one shot at moving Kuba, which disappeared when the Rangers got McCabe, and we never had a chance of moving Gonchar. What other massive contracts for aging veterans are weighing us down?
We’re up to 11 picks in the first 7 rounds, I believe, and many of them are pretty high up. I think we’re in a great position for the rebuild, and I honestly can’t think of a team that did a better job at blowing up for picks. If you can name one post-lockout, though, you’re welcome to correct my mistake.
Oh Captain, my Captain!
i couldn't disagree more
For example – the waiver pick-ups a clearly stop-gap measures for the remainder of the season. Trading the players we traded for draft picks alone, not sure how you can look at that any other way than rebuild.
in fact, i would go further and say that even getting Anderson is stop-gap. Even if we just stay competitive and play .500 from here out we’re still likely going to end up in the bottom 5 at worst and bottom 2 at best. Also, having a keeper that keeps you in games keeps people wanting to watch the games. It is still a business, after all.
I would say you are exactly right that the prior contracts were unmovable (short of being robbed). We’re ‘stuck’ with our expensive veterans.
Didn't you just write that we were ahead on the rebuild because of the assets already in our system?
It seems like you’re contradicting yourself. Why do we need to do a “real” rebuild if we’re already ahead of the game?
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
I just don’t understand how anyone can argue that the Anderson deal was “needless”. Is it needless to have at least a decent goalie who can instill confidence in your young players?
Yes, we’d all love to have seen Kuba and Gonchar flipped, but for what? To take on more salary? For a seventh-round draft pick? Because those are the kinds of options you’d be faced with.
That’s the problem when you suck: Nobody wants to take your players.
You can't learn to play hockey
… if you’re always playing in front of an empty net
This team NEEDS a capable goalie, even if only to allow the rest of the team to develop properly.
IF Anderson turns out to be that goalie then the Elliot trade was the deal of the year.
Elliott was horrible for the confidence of the team and the fans
It didn’t need to be Andy, but someone new had to step in. And frankly Andy’s pure entertainment! Hopefully they can re-sign him since I think he’s enough to keep people interested through the suckitude ahead.
Oh Captain, my Captain!
I completely agree
Was going to write something to this effect. While I hope that we get the player we want in the draft next year, we now have first choice on Anderson. He is the kind of goalie we need to have for Senate Reform because he will keep games close, even if we lose. I think we came dangerously close to shattering the confidence of Karlsson this year by having him play in front of some atrocious goaltending
O Magnus....
Look at Edmonton
Their young team has a high tempo offensive style that their allowed to play knowing that in the long term they will benefit from it and they have good goal tending to help in that development. Let’s hope Sens coaches recognize this and allow them to play creatively as opposed to Jacques Martin boring defensive hockey simply for the wins. Edmonton looses a lot but are still entertaining to watch as they go all out
by Hockey Playoff Run SensFan on Mar 1, 2011 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
I think we might see something different in Ottawa
Our prospects are largely on D. I also think that Edmonton does not actually have strong goaltending. To me, this means that it is more important that we have a strong goaltender because having a cardboard cutout back there will directly and negatively impact the development of our best prospects right now.
O Magnus....
When is a capable goalie not important? And Anderson might be that goalie, sure. But he’s also a pending UFA who might not want to play for another team where he’ll face 50 shots a night. And Murray probably won’t be around next year, so why would he put the next GM in a position where instead of an RFA he might flip for a pick he has a UFA he can’t trade at all? Murray’s in no position to be handing out contracts and sizing up players for re-signing. It’s not his team anymore. All of his moves should be about getting picks.
Disagree about Murray
“Murray’s in no position to be handing out contracts and sizing up players for re-signing. It’s not his team anymore.”
Personally, I think there is a pretty good chance that Murray gets a contract extension or at least a new role with the organization(Director of Hockey Operations or some such) and becomes more of an advisor. Either way, I think there is a good chance he will still be around next year and involved with the team.
I'm okay with signing Murray on for another year or two
He drafts really well IMO, and two of the trades he made blew my socks off.
Oh Captain, my Captain!
Agreed
He has a knack for getting good players. That switch last year that gave us Rundblad probably made a lot of other GM’s eyes go up in awe. He’s almost NHL ready and will look good alongside Karlsson
by Hockey Playoff Run SensFan on Mar 1, 2011 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
Lord, I hope he doesn’t get extended. He’s not as bad as some have been, but signing aging veterans and trading for injured goaltenders, along with his coaching hires, just leave way too many question marks. He’s had some bad luck, but there’s no denying where this team was when he took over it and where this team is now.
When he took it over the team was in a decline
Most of the players we had, thanks to Mukler were past their prime. The window was closing and they still tried to make us a contender. The reality of this team set in this year as the veterans were not enough to put it over the top. Added to that is the fact that our role players are young. Oh by the way Heatly only has 20 goals this year and San Jose has sucked for most of it :)
by Hockey Playoff Run SensFan on Mar 1, 2011 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
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by AussieSensFan on Mar 13, 2011 6:21 AM EST up reply actions

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