Silver Nuggets: Pros and cons of NHL realignment
by Adnan on Dec 6, 2011 1:01 PM EST
in Silver Nuggets
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PrintIf you closely follow hockey and don't live under a rock, you likely know that the NHL dramatically changed its divisions/conferences, pending NHLPA approval. Instead of having two conferences with three divisions each, the league will now have four conferences. Two conferences in the east will have seven teams each and the two in the west will have eight teams each. The "east" and "west" doesn't mean much any more though, aside from geography. The Ottawa Senators conference will include the Toronto Maple Leafs, Montréal Canadiens, Boston Bruins, Buffalo Sabres and err... the Tampa Bay Lightning and Florida Panthers. Ottawa will play the 23 clubs outside their conference twice (once home and once away) for a total of 46 games. Playing the other six clubs in their conference six times each will make up the remaining 36 games. Teams in an eight team conference will play 44 games against the 22 teams outside their conference and the remaining 38 games will be played within the conference by playing some teams five times and others six times on a rotating basis.
The first two rounds of the playoffs will be within each conference. The four conference champions will be reseeded for the semifinals. There are there some pros and some cons to this so let's take looks a look.
Pros
- Divisional playoffs: If the Sens, Leafs, and Habs all make the playoffs, one of the following matchups is guaranteed in the first round: Sens-Leafs, Sens-Habs, Leafs-Habs. A similar situation exists in other conferences.
- More possibilities for Stanley Cup final: In this format, the Senators can face anyone outside their conference in a potential Stanley Cup final. This means Ottawa could face Detroit, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, etc. for the cup.
- Fans see every team: Every NHL club will host every other NHL club at least once. This will mean Mark can at least see the Senators once a season in Nashville.
- Time zones: No team is more than one hour away in time difference from any of their conference opponents. This certainly helps television ratings for road games for teams like Minnesota, Columbus, Detroit and Dallas.
Cons
- Playoffs could get repetitive: While it is exciting to play the Leafs or Habs in the playoffs, there are only six teams the Senators can play in the first two rounds of the playoffs, as opposed to 14 possible opponents right now. Ottawa can also now no longer ever play Toronto or Montréal past the second round.
- Unfair to eight team conferences: As members of a seven team conference, Ottawa has a 57% chance of making the playoffs each season. Clubs in an eight team conference will only have a 50% chance. This is a systematic disadvantage each and every year to clubs in eight team divisions.
- Play former conference opponents less: Ottawa had a building rivalry with Pittsbugh but will now only play them twice a season. The Senators will also only play teams like Washington, Philadelphia and the New York Rangers twice.
- Canadian teams clustered: With six of the seven Canadian teams in two conferences, they will knock each other out in the earlier rounds. There will be at least one American team guaranteed in the semifinals.
- Florida teams: The inclusion of the Florida teams in Ottawa's conference are so random and makes no sense aside from the 'snowbird' impact. Playing them six times each per season does not sound very appealing to me.
General Sens News
- Game recap. (Silver Seven, Ottawa Sun, Senators Extra, Raw Charge)
- Erik Karlsson wants to get his missing tooth fixed because unlike Chris Neil, he doesn't expect to have them knocked out again. Karlsson also doesn't want to fight Sidney Crosby because Crosby is from Canada and has been in a couple of fights. Meanwhile, Zenon Konopka feels one of the Tampa Lightning players should be considered as among one of the best players in the league. No, he doesn't mean Steve Downie. (Ottawa Sun)
- Milan Michalek might be on pace for well over 40 goals, but he's aiming for 30. Daniel Alfredsson feels Michalek is slowly evolving into Dany Heatley's old job on the team - a goal scorer. (Senators Extra)
- Based on early season performance in their respective leagues, here is how the 2011 Ottawa Senators draft class would be redrafted based on NHL equivalence for forwards. All rankings are forwards, so Zibanejad's 5th means he was the fifth forward taken. Jean-Gabriel Pageau (8th from 58th), Shane Prince (9th from 38th), Ryan Dzingel (16th from 116th), Mika Zibanejad (35th from 5th), Stefan Noesen (39th from 12th), Matt Puempel (40th from 14th). (Copper and Blue)
- Bryan Murray confirmed that he has had preliminary contract discussions with Erik Karlsson's agent. (Steve Lloyd)
- Peter Regin has returned to practise today, though with no contact. (Sylvain St-Laurent)
- Filip Kuba is still not practising. (Sylvain St-Laurent)
- No changes in the lines, Bobby Butler and Colin Greening stay with Jason Spezza, Filatov still the 13th man. (Sylvain St-Laurent)
- The defensive pairings stayed the same as well. (Sylvain St-Laurent)
- UPDATE: Daniel Alfredsson has dropped to third among forwards for all-star game voting. Erik Karlsson still leads all defencemen. Jason Spezza is fourth among forwards, Milan Michalek sixth and Sergei Gonchar is sixth among defencemen. (NHL)
- Various reactions to the NHL realignment. (Yahoo!, Sportsnet, The 6th Sens)
- If you want to win a Winnipeg Jets card set or want to donate to Education in Need El Salvador, check out this link. (Arctic Ice Hockey)
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I think the Florida teams being with Ottawa/Tor/Mtl/Bos/Buf makes sense. They’re so far removed from every other team, that it really doesn’t make a difference which of the Eastern divisions they play against.
Also, who else would join the Sens’ conference? Pittsburgh and PHilly want their rivalry intact, and it makes sense to keep the NJ/NY teams together.
Co-manager, Silver Seven
If I may draw a comparison to the NFL for a moment..
Tampa and Florida in the Ott/Tor/Mtl/Bos/Buf division reminds me of Tampa Bay being in the same division as Green Bay, Chicago, Detroit, and Minnesota before the last divisional realignment. Doesn’t really make sense, but at least the weather is warm…
Shawn McEachern: The best Senator to ever wear 15.
by Speedy_McEachern on Dec 6, 2011 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
and MLB
Tampa with TO, NY, Boston and…crap, who the hell else is in AL East?
Scholar, Gentleman, Shameless Sens Homer with a Heart of Gold.
by Johnny_Spectacular on Dec 6, 2011 1:25 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Baltimore.
I’m not surprised you forgot. since they are utterly irrelevant.
Shawn McEachern: The best Senator to ever wear 15.
by Speedy_McEachern on Dec 6, 2011 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
You could move the 2 NY teams and NJ up instead
Have “Conference C” be an 8 team conference, and then slide either Nashville or Columbus over to “Conference D” to keep it 7 teams.
by B_T on Dec 6, 2011 2:40 PM EST up reply actions
It may also be temporary
In the event of expansion or relocation, two of the most likely potential cities seem to be the GTA and Quebec. That might be just perception because those cities dominate Canadian news outlet speculation (for obvious reasons), but considering the mixed results the NHL has had with expansion into the US of late, it seems likely that Canadian cities are high on the list.
Maybe Kansas City, Las Vegas, Seattle, Portland, or whatever other U.S. cities mentioned could get one, but I think the two Canadian cities mentioned seem at least as likely.
Silver Seven | Twitter | Facebook | E-mail | eBay
by Peter Raaymakers on Dec 7, 2011 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
I have a hard time seeing a pro team in Vegas
The leagues are just too paranoid about the gambling angle.
by B_T on Dec 7, 2011 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
I can't figure out if I'm uneasy about the realignment because it's different, or because there's solid reasons not to like it.
As you point out, it’s theoretically easier for Ottawa to make the playoffs now, and the scheduling is much more fair now. Everyone in each Conference/Division (seriously, what are we gonna call these things now?) plays the same schedules, so that’s nice from a fairness standpoint.
On the other hand, it’s much harder to give a crap about the teams outside of your Confrision (Hmm, I don’t think a portmanteau is going to solve this…) now. You’re only going to play them twice anyway, and you won’t possibly see them in the playoffs until the 3rd round at the earliest.
What has clearly happened here is that Gary Bettman looked at the TV ratings, and said to himself, “Hmm, all these rivalry games seem to get higher ratings than the other normal games. Let’s put all these teams in the same conference, make them play each other more often, have guaranteed awesome first and second round playoff series, and then profit!”
What’s crazy is that it might actually work! Divisional games have always been somewhat important, but now that there is direct competition for playoff spots, those divisional games are really going to take on a whole new intensity, especially towards the end of the season.
Shawn McEachern: The best Senator to ever wear 15.
by Speedy_McEachern on Dec 6, 2011 1:17 PM EST reply actions
What has clearly happened here is that Gary Bettman looked at the TV ratings, and said to himself, "Hmm, all these rivalry games seem to get higher ratings than the other normal games. Let’s put all these teams in the same conference, make them play each other more often, have guaranteed awesome first and second round playoff series, and then profit!"
That may be part of it, but I think another big part of it is that he saw teams that were crying out to be realigned into divisions where they’ll play more games in their time zones. Dallas didn’t belong in the Pacific. Columbus and Detroit didn’t belong in the Western Conference.
NHL Equivalencies
I’m pleased to see Prince and Pageau doing so well on that equivalencies chart… but is anyone else surprised as hell at Ryan Dzingle being 16th? That’s a prospect we don’t hear too much about.
Co-manager, Silver Seven
Yeah Dzingel was certainly the big jump.
Erik Karlsson is better than your favourite player.
Twitter: @sens_adnan
Who the heck is that guy? I don’t remember the Senators drafting Dzingel, but I am sure glad we have him in the system. Keep up the good work Ryan!
7th round pick from last year - from Kovalev trade
Here was Mark’s write-up on him.
Erik Karlsson is better than your favourite player.
Twitter: @sens_adnan
That's two years trending in the right direction
Makes me very happy.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
Jakob Culek on Czech Republic WJC training camp roster
He made the team last year, so it’s not a big surprise.
Co-manager, Silver Seven
Oddly enough, I count getting the FLA teams as a 'pro'
Ottawa/TB games have been feisty in the past, especially once Downie got in the mix, so I feel like they’ll slip into a natural rivalry once they’re division-mates. Florida just has a certain ‘little team that could’ appeal.
Overall, I’m a big supporter. Home-and-home for every team alone sealed the deal for me. And I like that the Northeast is still intact. Plus: no more Pens in the first round. Ever. God I am sick of playing them…
Plus, if Phoenix comes to Quebec City, that’s the Battle of Ontario, Florida and Quebec in one Conference :p
Scholar, Gentleman, Shameless Sens Homer with a Heart of Gold.
by Johnny_Spectacular on Dec 6, 2011 1:22 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Isn't it "When Phoenix moves" at this point?
Shawn McEachern: The best Senator to ever wear 15.
by Speedy_McEachern on Dec 6, 2011 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
My bet is the NHL shifts the Coyotes to Kansas City, then could either maintain status quo, or move the Jets to the Pacific and KC to the Central. I believe that all along the NHL has wanted to move the Phoenix team to KC and the Jets moving was just a case of the squeeky wheel getting the oil.
If they move to KC, I think they'd just leave Pacific as 7 teams
Since part of this was “no more than 1 timezone off for in-conference games”. They’d move one of the “Central” Conference teams to one of the Eastern conferences to make room instead.
by B_T on Dec 6, 2011 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
I think thats not the point
it wont go to hell with larger conferences and uneven numbers its easier to throw people around phoenix to QC or Hamilton would just make the Western division be cali canada and colorado…same goes for if columbus moves or if NYI move they would just shift someone like columbus to the NY pennsylvania group….
If they move east, they just drop into one of the 7 team conferences
If they move to someplace in CST, then it’s a matter of who to shift to the east.
by B_T on Dec 6, 2011 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
I hate realignment
what’s with 7 and 8 teams conferences? How can you give any team any advantage before even start of the season. In one conf there will be 50% of teams making playoffs, while in other – 57%. And even if they go with expansion adding 2 more teams (Kansas, Quebec, Hamilton, Missisauga, whatever), it will be years till those teams become competitive. WORST realignment idea ever!
Granted I would not be upset if we were in a 7 team conf, but it is not my business to complain about other teams. As a fan, I am upset and I can only expect that there is something more coming, something that somehow will make all of this fair, but we all know that is not going to happen. Please explain to me how only 4 GMs voted against it?!! Was everyone else asleep or on a golf course?
I know that, that doesn't matter, I know you Mr. Rainey, that's what matters. You stole my story.
I'm fine with the 7 and 8 team conferences
What I can’t understand is why the best teams in each conference have to make it. Is it really so hard to keep the new alignment and say the 16 best teams make it? They can still have the “divisional” matchups or whatever, but I don’t see how handicapping certain teams is fair.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
Because the schedule is so different. A team from one conference has only about 55-60% overlap in schedule from a team in another conference.
It would be like in the current setup picking the 16 teams even though east and west barely play each other.
Erik Karlsson is better than your favourite player.
Twitter: @sens_adnan
So then just keep the two conferences and have two divisions in each conference, right?
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
Then you're still stuck with Detroit in the West.
My Detroit buddies are saying that the best thing about this new setup is that they won’t have anymore 10pm puck drops in the playoffs (early rounds, at least). That’s the big thing selling Detroit on the whole realignment.
They lose that if the league has a 2-conference, 4-division arrangement.
(Not that I’m saying Detroit’s wishes should supersede everyone else’s, just that this is the only reason they’re on board with the whole thing. Columbus too.)
But wouldn't the divisional playoffs counteract that?
Since the conferences would be in name only.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
Well you suggested two conferences with two divisions. I am assuming you meant top 8 in each conference, hence no divisional playoffs.
Erik Karlsson is better than your favourite player.
Twitter: @sens_adnan
Well, what I was thinking was something like:
Western: Division A, Division B
Eastern: Division C, Division D
Top 8 teams from Divisions A&B play their regular divisional playoff games and same with Divisions C&D play their regular divisional playoff games.
This would mean there’s a chance of one team playing a cross-divisional game, but it would ensure the 16 best teams made it into the playoffs.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
Oh so like the old AHL format of a team from division B playing in division A playoffs?
I would be up for that, though it still has the different schedule problem. But it sure beats having a team with 15 less points make it.
Erik Karlsson is better than your favourite player.
Twitter: @sens_adnan
Yes, very similar
But I’d try to keep the teams internally between divisions whenever possible. B would only play A if there were an uneven number of teams from each division.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
Hmm.
The only thing with this is that you could have a season that goes like this:
Winnipeg finishes 4th in their conference with 95 points. They go to the playoffs. Columbus finishes 5th with 94 points.
Over in another conference, New Jersey, say, finishes 4th with 93 points. Because you’ve already accepted the crossover thing, Jersey goes to the playoffs thanks to one extra point which they may well have earned playing a bunch of games in a weaker division.
Both setups have their issues.
I think the way that would get around this would be every year you have a play-in game (or two), like the NCAA men’s basketball tournament.
Pair up the conferences (like you suggested, Mark), and each season, have the 4th-place team in a 7-team conference host a play-in game against the 5th-place team in whichever 8-team conference they’re paired up with.
It’s a little convoluted, I acknowledge, but I think it minimizes the potential for disastrous final standings that expose some kind of fatal flaw in the system.
And of course I meant to say...
Over in another conference, New Jersey, say, finishes 4th with 93 points. Because you’ve already accepted the crossover thing, Columbus goes to the playoffs thanks to one extra point which they may well have earned playing a bunch of games in a weaker division.
What if the division isn't actually weaker, just more competitive?
Shawn McEachern: The best Senator to ever wear 15.
by Speedy_McEachern on Dec 6, 2011 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
It's useless to pick apart the scenarios like this.
Because I could provide you with another, equally possible scenario to counter.
Point I’m making is that both under the new system (what we understand of it, anyway) and under Mark’s system, there’s inevitably going to be some outcome where one team is going to have a really, really good case that they’re getting jobbed.
Whereas if you just say to the teams barely getting in, “Okay, we don’t know who’s better, so you two should play a game to decide,” neither side can then make the case that it was robbed.
I think my point is just that it's going to be difficult to compare division strength by purely looking at point total.
Obviously at the end of the season, the number of points from the interlock games will be a good indicator, but pure point totals will not definitively indicate a team’s relative strength.
Shawn McEachern: The best Senator to ever wear 15.
by Speedy_McEachern on Dec 6, 2011 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
I'm totally on board with that.
And that’s why I think playing a game, rather than looking at numbers, is a better way of determining the final playoff spot.
I'm a bit uncomfortable with having one game to determine playoffs when you've just played an entire season ostensibly to do just that.
I mean, I like the sentiment, but hockey is such an inherently random game, that I’m not sure it’d be any more useful than just flipping a coin. That’s why playoff series have 7 games, and you STILL sometimes get playoff results that are seem random.
Shawn McEachern: The best Senator to ever wear 15.
by Speedy_McEachern on Dec 6, 2011 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
Well, but at some point you have to just accept the results of the game you play
Otherwise why play at all?
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
This reminds me of a great Deadspin mailbag.
During the NFL lockout when it looked as if there might not be a (full) season, someone wrote in suggesting that there should just be a Madden simulation of the season. Games would still be aired on TV, people would call post-game shows on the radio to complain about their team, and people would still gamble on the outcome – everyone would just accept that this was the season.
Bang on
For any team that may potentially get scrooged out of a playoff spot, they have only themselves to fault. If they would have won that game in regulation, or had they not have allowed that overtime goal, they would have had the extra point to get them in.
It helps to look at each conference as individual leagues, with the strongest teams coming out of each conference to play for the cup anyways. While there have been cinderella stories in the past, they are not the norm. I’ll settle for a good series, and not worry about whether a team in another conference with fewer points is playing and we’re not. It’ll suck, but you’ve got to play within the rules. The current system has the same problem with the top team in each division automatically being seeded 1,2,3.
Common sense is the most evenly distributed quality in all the world.
Everyone thinks they have enough.
I just think that playing the game cuts off any whining.
If a team misses the playoffs because they finished with two points fewer than a team in another division, that team’s fanbase is going to be insufferable.
But if a team misses the playoffs because they lost a game, there is no grumbling.
But I take your point.
I think that method would work, too
A team with a competitive advantage due to a smaller conference couldn’t justifiably complain about having to defend it for one game.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
And I'd say they should get an advantage for that one game, too.
They should get to play it at home. (Though you could split the revenue between the two clubs if you wanted, to minimize owners whining about some teams getting an “extra” game.) And if the teams in the other conference don’t like it, they have a ready solution: Don’t finish in 5th place.
That would give the 8 team conference a competitive advantage then
Odds for 7 team conference would be 3/7 + (1/7)*0.5 with 50% chance of winning playoffs for a total of 50% chance.
Odds for 8 team conference is 4/8 + (1/8) * 0.5 = 56.25%
Erik Karlsson is better than your favourite player.
Twitter: @sens_adnan
Four conferences is a done-deal.
And given what we know about how the four conferences will work, it’s impossible to come up with a system that will have no competitive advantages. All you can try to do is minimize them.
And I’d argue that any team worth its salt isn’t going to bitch and moan about competitive advantages after it loses that play-in game.
I am just saying, it flips the advantage from 7 team to 8 team.
Erik Karlsson is better than your favourite player.
Twitter: @sens_adnan
If you start criss-crossing teams from one conference into another for the first rounds of the playoffs though, you still run the risk of Detroit (or Columbus) getting paired up with Anaheim or Vancouver, do you not?
Maybe I’m misunderstanding you.
What Adnan said.
I mean, some owners bitch about this in baseball due to inter-league play, and that affords only a tiny advantage to one team or another.
When it comes right down to it...
due to revenue sharing, it comes down to how the league as a whole can generate the most money across the board. Some teams will be hurt buy it, but they agree to it all for the greatest good. It isn’t about the fans and being fair, it is all abou the allmighty dollar.
Common sense is the most evenly distributed quality in all the world.
Everyone thinks they have enough.
I'm okay with the 7 and 8 team conferences because we're in a 7 team conference!
by Sports Fan! on Dec 6, 2011 2:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
couldn't agree more
and couldn’t disagree with myself more… I feel like we stole one from the west here…
I know that, that doesn't matter, I know you Mr. Rainey, that's what matters. You stole my story.
Well sure it is nice for us, but it doesn’t make it fair.
I don’t want us to have an unfair advantage over other teams in the league.
Erik Karlsson is better than your favourite player.
Twitter: @sens_adnan
The only tweak I would have made...
…(and I suppose they could still make it if they wanted) would be to have a 5th place team in an 8-team conference have a play-in game versus the 4th place team in a 7-team conference. That eliminates the advantage.
Agreed, if we were in an 8 team conference, I’d be complaining. That’s what makes it unfair.
Think about it… all we have to do to make the playoffs is be better than 3 of Florida, Toronto, Montreal and Buffalo, which doesn’t sound all that bad!
I was going to put Tampa, but then I thought they might be a consistently decent team with Yzerman as GM
Brian Burke’s recent moves have been better than Yzerman.
The Lupul trade is looking incredible.
Erik Karlsson is better than your favourite player.
Twitter: @sens_adnan
You should be flagged for giving prop's to Brian Burke
lol
Common sense is the most evenly distributed quality in all the world.
Everyone thinks they have enough.
by havey03 on Dec 6, 2011 3:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'd privately have to agree with this sentiment. I'm becoming genuinely concerned that Toronto may make the playoffs this year. Hopefully this just makes the (inevitable?) mid-season collapse all the more glorious.
Publicly, however, I’d never agree and will continue to blindly hate everyone associated with the Toronto Maple Leafs and everything they stand for.
Shawn McEachern: The best Senator to ever wear 15.
by Speedy_McEachern on Dec 6, 2011 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
This blog is public though!
Erik Karlsson is better than your favourite player.
Twitter: @sens_adnan
Well, then I just hope my friends who are Leafs' fans can't identify my online persona.
They likely won’t have much trouble if they’ve been paying attention to my posts, though…
Shawn McEachern: The best Senator to ever wear 15.
by Speedy_McEachern on Dec 6, 2011 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
You need to change your sig
It is clearly incorrect
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
I was actually thinking about throwing in a Z Smith reference.
But I didn’t want to be premature. I nearly broke my ankles jumping onto the Peter Regin bandwagon two years ago, and I’m loathe to make the same mistake again.
Shawn McEachern: The best Senator to ever wear 15.
by Speedy_McEachern on Dec 6, 2011 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
I have bowed to your peer pressure.
Shawn McEachern: The best Senator to ever wear 15.
Zack Smith: The future best Senator to ever wear 15.
by Speedy_McEachern on Dec 6, 2011 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
You're halfway there
Let me help:
“Z. Smith: The best Senator.”
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
by Mark Parisi on Dec 6, 2011 4:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You seriously want to praise the Leafs after 1/3 season of >.500 hockey? In my mind, even though they’ve got a shot at the playoffs this year, they’re not a perennial force!
Well, Burke has more of a track record than Yzerman. I can’t really think of anything great he has done as GM.
Oh Stamkos and Hedman grew in experience for a year, that’s not Yzerman.
Erik Karlsson is better than your favourite player.
Twitter: @sens_adnan
This has happened in baseball for 10+ years. The AL West was the easiest division in baseball and the LA Angels of Anaheim/Compton/Orange County reaped the benefits for the most part. The NL Central had 6 teams, which made it so teams like the Pirates and Reds could suck for decades without much hope. They only moved to fix this issue this offseason, with Houston moving to the AL West to balance out the leagues.
There will be cycles of powerful conferences
Or just powerful teams dominating within a conference, but that will cycle through as it always has. The bottom line is that there isn’t one right answer, its a best fit scenario
Common sense is the most evenly distributed quality in all the world.
Everyone thinks they have enough.
What's my problem??? I LOVE realignment !!!
I swear I thought we are in 8 teams conf… LOL, I love it, it is the best idea ever, long live Bettman! If every other team likes it, I have no objections, this realignment is awesome… playoffs could be better, but who cares, battle of ontario here we come again!!!
I know that, that doesn't matter, I know you Mr. Rainey, that's what matters. You stole my story.
Updated all-star votes
Six automatic selections:
Forwards
1. Phil Kessel 384,029
2. Sidney Crosby 320,865
3. Daniel Alfredsson 320,100
Defencemen
1. Erik Karlsson 351,957
2. Dion Phaneuf 324,031
Goaltender
1. James Reimer 248,412
Erik Karlsson is better than your favourite player.
Twitter: @sens_adnan
Kessel I get. He is doing well this year.
But Phaneuf? He’s not that great a defenceman – not over Chara/Lindstrom etc.
And Reimer? Fraking Leafs fans.
True, but others could say “Karlsson I get, but Alfredsson?” ;)
Erik Karlsson is better than your favourite player.
Twitter: @sens_adnan
confussed
What are you trying to say? I don’t understand.
I know that, that doesn't matter, I know you Mr. Rainey, that's what matters. You stole my story.
He's saying...
…that Alfredsson is only that high in the votes because he’s beloved by Ottawa fans. If you look at his play today and measure it objectively, he’s not an all-star just like Phaneuf isn’t an all-star.
what are yo trying to say, again? ;D
I still do not understand – it is your captain Daniel Alfredsson!!
Seriously, I understand of course :D but being one of the “followers of the church of Alfie” I do not care what haters say, I admire him unconditionally and for me he is always an all-star, even if he is 40 year old Hall of Famer and assistant coach of Ottawa Senators. You know it will happen. Vote Alfie!!!
I know that, that doesn't matter, I know you Mr. Rainey, that's what matters. You stole my story.
Yes, but there is a difference there
I probably wouldn’t have voted for Alfie if (1) there wasn’t a good chance that this was his last season, and (2) the ASG wasn’t in Ottawa.
I’m comfortable with extending this reasoning such that the captain of the home team should be considered a presumptive ASG selection, so long as it’s not utterly ludicrous.
by whereverjustice on Dec 6, 2011 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
Don't hate them...
Don’t hate them, they are already blue!
I know that, that doesn't matter, I know you Mr. Rainey, that's what matters. You stole my story.
Why not the 16 best?
Hypothetically couldn’t we actually end up with a team getting the 8th spot in the playoffs with a .400 winning percentage? Why can’t they just reward the 16 best teams with a ticket to the playoffs? Have they even considered this?
It would be really embarassing if a team with a .600 winning percentage doesn’t make it while a team in another conference with a .400 winning percentage makes it.
Possible but unlikely
With the high number of divisional games it should spread the wealth a bit between the teams in each division yes the 5th team in one of the 8 groups could be much better than an 4th in a shitty group but the same thing happens now Ottawa is 8th in the east now but 20th in the league in points %
Even more likely though, the smaller the group, the bigger the chance of someone bad sneaking through.
Erik Karlsson is better than your favourite player.
Twitter: @sens_adnan
It really becomes about 4 seperate leagues vying for a championship
& playing a bunch of exhibition games throughout the season. Lose a game to any one of 23(22) other teams & it isn’t a big deal. Lose a game to any one of 6(7) teams within the conference, and your playoff hopes are in serious jeopardy.
One team emerges from each conference (super league) to play for hockey’s ultimate suprise.
But its ok. It will work for now, and if you don’t like it, in 15 years when Bettman gets tired of it again, he’ll shake it up and do it some other way.
Common sense is the most evenly distributed quality in all the world.
Everyone thinks they have enough.
wow... spell check... read what you write before you post...
how bout: “play for hockey’s ultimate prize”
lol
Common sense is the most evenly distributed quality in all the world.
Everyone thinks they have enough.
I wouldn’t go that far. It’s still more than half the games outside your conference, so it is not quite exhibition games.
Erik Karlsson is better than your favourite player.
Twitter: @sens_adnan
I like this idea
Although then there’s the issue of the imballanced schedules. Some teams would have easier schedules than others.
I HATE THE PLAYOFF FORMAT!!!!!!!
by fridgefullofmeat on Dec 6, 2011 2:08 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Yeah, that's the only thing I really don't like about it.
It’s going to be the same matchups year after year in the first 2 rounds. And then the 3rd round (formerly the conference final) won’t be against a rival team anymore.
Im with you
I dislike the playoffs… Should be the top 16 teams in the playoffs. And the way they’ve planned it with no crossover? That’s garbage. I like seeing every team once, especially since I’m in Winnipeg and can still see Ottawa once, but the playoffs are the worst part by far. Awful.
by spatial.taxes on Dec 6, 2011 7:26 PM EST up reply actions
I think the league got this just about perfect.
I’m not thrilled about being with the Florida teams, but I understand why it had to happen.
Is there an expansion in the works?
NHL expansion possible? adding 2 more teams for a total of 32. But in these tough $$$ times, with so many teams losing money and 1 team under NHL ownership, it is hard to envision. However if this would happen, Hamilton, QC, Kansas would make sense and then 4 confs with 8 teams each – just about perfect.
I know that, that doesn't matter, I know you Mr. Rainey, that's what matters. You stole my story.
They aren't looking to expand right now
Too many teams are in trouble, and the talent pool is even thinner than it has been in the past with the rise of the KHL & european leagues. Not everyone is coming to the NHL to play pro hockey anymore. The likelyhood of contraction is everybit as real as expansion, and with that in mind, they would have structured for what they know now, not what they thought might happen in the future.
Common sense is the most evenly distributed quality in all the world.
Everyone thinks they have enough.
That would be ideal
But with several teams flirting with financial ruin, it’s not in the cards right now.
by B_T on Dec 6, 2011 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
Well they have made the viability of a 2 team contraction much more likely. It was always difficult to contract back to the ideal number of 24, but now with 2-7 team conferences you could see it working. Kill off say Phoenix and Nashville and you’re golden.
Nashville does not deserve to be killed
They have a better hockey crowd than I’ve ever experienced at SBP.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
Sorry Mark
Didn’t mean to ax the closest team to you(again) in my hypothetical. I was just picking one of the 8 in the Central and I figured they were a likely candidate. I know Columbus would be right there too. I don’t know what it is, but I’ve always had a soft spot for the Blue Jackets. It just seems to me like hockey should be viable in Ohio, even though I know it has failed before.
by modsuperstar on Dec 6, 2011 10:28 PM EST up reply actions
Ha, I don't take offense to it
But I can’t stand by and see the myth that Nashville’s not a hockey town perpetuated when I’ve been there and experienced it myself. Their fans understand the game, are super loud, and super passionate. I had great fun there.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
Nashville is an awesome hockey town
Seriously… I just wish the ownership would pay enough to guarantee a truly successful season, so fans could be rewarded for their loyalty and intensity.
Because I wouldn’t want that loyalty to fade as people become unimpressed with the on-ice results.
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by Peter Raaymakers on Dec 7, 2011 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
That's a low blow, Parisi.
Shawn McEachern: The best Senator to ever wear 15.
Zack Smith: The future best Senator to ever wear 15.
by Speedy_McEachern on Dec 6, 2011 10:45 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, but it's the truth
Although I haven’t been to Ottawa since the Corel Centre was renamed, so maybe the crowd has gotten better, but I doubt it.
Or maybe my expectations are super low after having attended games in Phoenix and and Atlanta, where there was no crowd to speak of.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
I think that might be it
Also there have not been many playoff games at SBP in recent times hopefully that is soon to change….
It's the government town thing
And I absolutely agree that Ottawa crowds can be dull at times. Depends on the game, really. Overall, they’ve gotten a bit better though, and this doesn’t really apply to playoff games.
by B_T on Dec 7, 2011 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
It's only because tickets in Nashville are cheaper than in Ottawa
nah, of course it is not just because of that, since I doubt that 10% discount matters at all. It has to be Mike Fisher then! No, that’s not it either…
Somebody please, quick, come to my rescue and explain to me how Nashville draws better crowd in quality than Ottawa…
Average attendance: Nashville: 16,403, Ottawa: 19,025, ok, that makes sense… Nashville wins in quality, because we have so many Montreal and Toronto fans in the crowd.
I know that, that doesn't matter, I know you Mr. Rainey, that's what matters. You stole my story.
I don't think it does
Mark probably just happened to go to one good Nashville crowd and one bad Ottawa one.
Erik Karlsson is better than your favourite player.
Twitter: @sens_adnan
I’ve been to a game at SBP more recently than Mark, but it’s still been a long time. That said, I agree with him about Ottawa crowds. In my experience, they’re timid and play to the scoreboard as often as any other Canadian crowds.
I also think TaBu might be onto something with the price difference – lower ticket prices do draw a different kind of crowd.
I WILL MAINTAIN SOUTHERN INFERIORITY!
Erik Karlsson is better than your favourite player.
Twitter: @sens_adnan
The thing is that I've been to more than one Ottawa game
The Nashville crowd was much more into the game. And this was on December 23rd.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
I hear the Ottawa game December 22nd against Florida is gonna be wild.
There are some crazy fans up in the 300 level who are going to keep yelling random things.
Well, the Nashville game I attended was sold out
But they were much more passionate about the game.
They were definitely much louder than the SBP crowds I watched games with.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
stop rubbing it in :)
I think everyone here knows (those who have been to SBP) that our crowds are somewhat too polite… It is unfortunate and a bit depressing as “GO Sens GO” chants die off 2 seconds after ref drops the puck and the same happens to any energy that is being generated during commercial breaks. It is almost like we are trying to be considerate of the TV audience… I do not know what it is, how this can be changed, but it really sucks as I want to support my team, my throat is sore after every game, but we do not support our team LOUD ENOUGH!!!!
I know that, that doesn't matter, I know you Mr. Rainey, that's what matters. You stole my story.
I'm not trying to rub it in, just commenting on my experiences
I don’t understand why the Ottawa crowd is so silent, but I know I’d rather cheer than watch… and I do.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
If you buy tickets to see Nashville games
I imagine you must be one passionate Predators fan. Just like if I were to drive to Buffalo for Bills’ games, I must be one heck of a Bills/NFL fan. On the other hand, for an Ottawan to go to a Sens’ game, it’s such a natural thing to do (if you have money). Or is it because, as the country music capital, it’s citizens are just natural more “Eeeh-Haa”, flag-waving, fun-loving, party time kind of people vs Ottawans who (like me) are docile, don’t want to be noticed, self conscious types?
Beats me
Nashville is actually a pretty awesome city. I really recommend visiting there.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
"American team guaranteed in the semi-finals".
That was probably a big selling point for the League.
Them and their “Must have American viewers”. This way, making the Canadians battle it out before the serious money starts coming in is good for business
(Why yes, I do believe that NHL Marketing loathes having Canadian teams in the playoffs. It’s not good for TV numbers, just like having Nashville or Carolina in the mix is also a pain. Their final four would be LA, NY, CHI, BOS, every year. NHL Marketing is not the NHL itself, just a part.)
A Goal Horn Haiku
Hoooonk hoooonk honk honk hooooonk
That's the sound the train horn makes
Suck it, Toronto
But that's the case with every league, isn't it?
It’s not like MLB actually wants to help Pittsburgh reach the post-season again. It’s not as if the NBA wants anyone other than Miami representing the East for the next decade. It’s not as if the NFL would prefer Jacksonville and San Diego tearing it up.
All of the leagues want teams in the biggest markets winning games. All of the leagues want their most marketable stars in the biggest markets.
Yes, yes they do want that. I would never go as far as to suggest that the NHL (or any other league) would tamper with their product.
That’s stupid on their part, short-sighted, and they know better.
Heck, it’s not as if the Canadian teams have shown they can win it all. Four of the ‘Six" (pre-Winnipeg) have made it to the finals since 04, but couldn’t close it out. And frankly, there haven’t been any third-round matchups between Canadian teams in ages, has there? So what am I complaining about?
Oh, merely the notion that that possibility could be excluded. At least it hasn’t been borked entirely
A Goal Horn Haiku
Hoooonk hoooonk honk honk hooooonk
That's the sound the train horn makes
Suck it, Toronto
A big selling point for the league?
I mean, right now, assuming all teams are equal, there’s just a 0.1277% chance that all four semi-finalist teams are Canadian. (7/30)(6/29)(5/28)*(4/27)
Doesn’t seem like something they’d need to worry about.
by whereverjustice on Dec 6, 2011 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
No, it's not something they *need* to worry about.
And given our record since the teams hit 30, then there really isn’t anything to worry about.
But every little extra piece of the pie the owners can squeeze from revenue isn’t peanuts in this League. If they can ensure themselves more money by the smallest of tricks, they will.
That’s how Ottawa & Tampa got their franchises, after all.
A Goal Horn Haiku
Hoooonk hoooonk honk honk hooooonk
That's the sound the train horn makes
Suck it, Toronto
The chances aren't that low, are they?...
Chances of West Conference Finals being all Canadian
= # possible all Canadian matchups / total possible matchups
= 3 / (15*14/2)
=3/105
Chances of East Conference Final being all Canadian
= 6/105
Chaces of both happening
= (3/105)*(6/105)
= 18/11025
= 0.163%
Wow I was wrong! They are really low! Unless I screwed up the math somewhere…
I don’t get where you’re getting the 6/105 for the East. There are 4 Canadian teams in the East and 3 in the West as it currently stands.
by modsuperstar on Dec 6, 2011 10:31 PM EST up reply actions
... I hadn't thought of that.
Probably … ….
….
DAMMIT, BETTMAN!!!
A Goal Horn Haiku
Hoooonk hoooonk honk honk hooooonk
That's the sound the train horn makes
Suck it, Toronto
Put out to pasture in the HHOF's trophy stud farm?
by B_T on Dec 6, 2011 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
Where they can frolic happily amongst the other trophies of eras past.
(Seriously, the HHOF has amassed one heck of a collection)
A Goal Horn Haiku
Hoooonk hoooonk honk honk hooooonk
That's the sound the train horn makes
Suck it, Toronto
Maybe they'll go into the Hall of Fame and the Stanley Cup will be it.
Not like any hockey player ever once said they liked the Wales or Campbell trophies anyways.
A Goal Horn Haiku
Hoooonk hoooonk honk honk hooooonk
That's the sound the train horn makes
Suck it, Toronto
Retire Wales & Campbell
Create Smyte, Patrick, Adams & Norris – One for each conference. The only other one that matters is Lord Stanley’s mug!
(Also, I wouldn’t be surprised to see these 4 conferences arise with these for names)
Common sense is the most evenly distributed quality in all the world.
Everyone thinks they have enough.
There’s no way they do away with trophies. There will probably be more trophies. There will definitely be more banners, as they can now award banners for regular season division champion and playoff division champions.
by modsuperstar on Dec 7, 2011 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
Nostalgia.
I have pins in my collection from the Wales & Campbell Conferences.
And you hate to see history get dumped in a bin. Behind a glass case, sure… but not the bin.
A Goal Horn Haiku
Hoooonk hoooonk honk honk hooooonk
That's the sound the train horn makes
Suck it, Toronto
No idea, but this got me thinking...
Nowadays, you can win a division championship (reg season) and a conference championship (playoffs)….. under the new format, what do we call the best regular season team in the conference? They can’t be conference champions too!
I think the terms would be conference champions (reg season, there would be 4 teams) and then playoff conference champions (again 4 teams, may or may not be different), and then Stanley cup finalists (2 teams). kinda lame i know, but probably the terms that will be used. unless some new terms are made up.
They can still be used
There will still be semi-finals in the playoffs. The winners of those can be awarded those trophies.
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by Peter Raaymakers on Dec 7, 2011 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
Im Mad
From Dale Tallon to NHL.com: “From the business side, getting Toronto and Montreal and Boston to come to our building is really good for us. Travel is the negative, but hopefully we can work around it. … The travel is not exactly easy to Winnipeg in our division this year, so we’re dealing with it. If this is what is best for the overall competitive League balance, then I’m OK with it.” The only team he fails to mention is Ottawa within our division
Ottawa's not as big a draw as those other teams
And Winnipeg was mentioned because of travel. He didn’t mention Tampa Bay or Buffalo, either, at least from the section you quoted.
I’m fine with that. We know Ottawa simply doesn’t have the same fanbase as those teams, it’s a fact. I live in Southern Ontario and there are more Habs and Bruins fans here than Sens fans, that’s for sure. I’m sure that type of arrangement is similar in other portions of the world.
by modsuperstar on Dec 6, 2011 10:34 PM EST up reply actions
The biggest loss in my view
Is the potential for a wide variety of play-off match-ups which was possible under the current dispensation. In this I am in agreement with Greg Wyshynksi. It is very unlikely that, following realignment, we’ll see anything like the Detroit-Colorado match-ups, or Ottawa-Pittsburgh, or the like. But I understand that intensifying intra-divisional rivalry is a big draw.
I agree, it's a little sad...
…but personally, the prospect of more all-Canadian matchups is enough to sway me. They’ve become so rare.
Yeah, one of the things I enjoyed about the current format is the variety of foes
I would have never learned to hate teams like New Jersey, Pittsburgh, or Anaheim if it weren’t for the current format.
Now we’re going to see more of Toronto, Montreal, and Buffalo? But I already hate those teams!
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
I guess I could start hating Boston
I currently have no hatred for them.
Erik Karlsson is better than your favourite player.
Twitter: @sens_adnan
I'll have no problem hating Boston...
I can pretty well hate at the drop of the hat, just tell me who to. I hate Lightnings and Panthers already, just like that.
by whatsinaname on Dec 6, 2011 11:03 PM EST up reply actions
This is also true.
All it takes is one dirty player to take a run at one of our guys, and I will forever hate them.
Tampa because of Downie.
Rangers because of Avery.
Pittsburgh because of Crosby (not dirty, just don’t like him) and Cooke.
Ducks because of Pronger (even though he doesn’t play for them anymore, still don’t like them).
Philly because of Pronger (because he plays for them now)
I never liked Boston. I find their fans always had that Original 6 entitlement like the Habs fans have, except without the actual winning. The fact they won the Cup just annoyed me, especially knowing they practically did it using all Sen, Leaf and Hab castoffs to do it.
by modsuperstar on Dec 7, 2011 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
I *really* hate Pittsburgh
And I get a lot of joy when we beat them. Not too bothered about Jersey though. I also dislike Philly because of Pronger, but that is because of his antics in the Finals as a Duck.
They did a similar thing earlier where you played 8 games vs rivals. And that sucked. The thing I love about the Ottawa/Toronto games is that there are enough of them that it’s a rivalry, but not enough to kill that. 8 games means one every month on average – at which point it’s not a rivalry so much as a “oh, Toronto again? Well fack.” I’ll still hate them, but by the end of the season I’ll be bored of playing the same team and would like to see someone new.
I think it’s a good thing for ticket sales, but the league is really limiting their options here.
It just dawned on me, but really we’ve never seen Ottawa play Montreal in the playoffs, nor have in many of our lifetimes have we seen the Leafs play the Habs. Toronto used to be in the opposite conference, and when they did switch they never met in the playoffs. I hate the Habs with a passion, even without the playoff matchups. Just think how much those rivalries could be ratcheted up.
by modsuperstar on Dec 6, 2011 10:39 PM EST up reply actions
I honestly don't think there's anything that could make me hate Toronto, Montreal, or Buffalo more than I do
I could be satisfied with nine wins a year as long as they were against those three teams.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
I find it hard to hate Buffalo. They’re such a loser town and have such a losing complex that I find it really impossible to really hate them. Just mention “wide right” or Brett Hull’s skate in the crease and it’s amusing to see how fired up their fans get.
by modsuperstar on Dec 7, 2011 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
I'll be honest... my Leafs hate has ebbed a bit
Oh, don’t get me wrong – they’re still at the top of my “Sports teams I hate” list. But the fire just hasn’t been there lately.
by B_T on Dec 7, 2011 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't say it's completely habitual, but definitely more towards that end of the scale lately
The passion isn’t gone, it’s just… less. A good playoff series and I’m sure it’ll be right back up there though!
by B_T on Dec 7, 2011 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
It's the same as why Leafs fans boo Alfie
They don’t necessarily remember why, but it’s part of hating the Sens culture.
I don't really like this new format.
It’s going be really weird for me not watching Philly, Carolina, Pittsburgh and Washington 4 times a year at least. The Sens have always had a thing with Philly and more recently Pittsburgh. So it sucks that these rivalries are going to be pretty much gone.
I agree with havey03 when he mentioned that all the other games outside the conference are pretty much exhibition games, well they kinda are. Yes they count towards your points but at some point it’s going to be the intraconference games that decide your seeding.
At first it will be fun watching Ottawa (assuming they make it) duke it out with their rivals in the playoffs, but after a while it’s going to get redundant. I also don’t think it’s a fair assessment as to who is the best team in the league when every team’s most important battles are within their 7 or 8 team conference.
I may end up loving this format but right now I don’t.
by Los Blancos Chicca on Dec 7, 2011 8:43 AM EST reply actions
I think it's short sighted.
Sure, there will be some building of rivalries. But after a while they’ll lose their appeal. If we’re playing Montreal or Toronto every month, it’s not nearly as “special” as when we play them fewer times.
We play them 6 times, and will continue to play them 6 times.
But it used to be 8 right after the lockout.
Erik Karlsson is better than your favourite player.
Twitter: @sens_adnan
My point exactly.
We’re already playing Montreal and Toronto a bunch of times, so I don’t understand why people think it will be less special under the new system.
I guess playing them in the playoffs all the time.
Erik Karlsson is better than your favourite player.
Twitter: @sens_adnan
Because we've played NE teams so often in the playoffs lately?
I guess I just feel like realignment happens every generation or so, and in another generation – 15 or 20 years – once this format’s played out, they’ll move on to something else.
It won't be less special
It’ll just be boring if we never get to see other people – like guys from out East – as much. Hell, even Crosby won’t be gracing our building as much.
Yeah it went up to 8, then back down to 6.
At least with 6 it’s a little more spread out. But that year with 8 was too much for me.
This is my feeling too
At some point the novelty will wear off for the divisional playoffs.
Erik Karlsson is better than your favourite player.
Twitter: @sens_adnan
The playoffs are kind of awesome
There are going to be huge rivalries if we play mostly the same teams in the first two rounds of the playoffs every year. Unfortunately it means we don’t get to feast on the Flyers anymore, but maybe we’ll finally exact some revenge on the Maple Leafs.
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by Peter Raaymakers on Dec 7, 2011 12:37 PM EST reply actions
… and some more revenge on the Sabres. And finally play the Canadiens and Bruins, who we’ve oddly never faced off against in the playoffs.
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by Peter Raaymakers on Dec 7, 2011 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
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