Nick Foligno: The Biggest Tease on the Ottawa Senators?
After Saturday's shootout loss to the Buffalo Sabres, the Ottawa Senators' record sits at 7-7-1. They sit seventh in the Eastern Conference (though almost all teams behind them have games in hand).
Certain players have blown us away with how well they have played so far and the whole team has been a pleasant surprise. Sergei Gonchar has nine points in 14 games after a tough start. Filip Kuba has already matched his goal output from last year and is the only Sens defenceman to be on the positive side of the plus/minus category. Chris Neil is playing his most effective hockey in years and has put up good numbers, making him a very effective player game in and game out. Milan Michalek is second in the league in goals and looks like a man possessed to start the year. The list goes on and on.
Noticeably absent from this list, though, is our de facto top-six forward: Nick Foligno.
Foligno continues to be a source of frustration. With a cap hit of $1.2 million a season, Foligno isn't a player anyone could argue is overpaid. I will argue, however, that he is overplayed (like Nickelback), and that he is a player who needs his role re-examined.
Last year, even though he got off to a terrible start, Foligno managed to set career high numbers in assists and points with 20 and 34 respectively. This year, 15 games in, he has three goals and three assists for six points (though three were in one game) and is being projected to score 16 goals and 16 assists over the course of the season. In August, I wrote an article about the potential top six, and mentioned that most successful teams require at least 40 points out of their top-six forwards. Interestingly enough, in that same article, I asked who would be the odd man out of the top-six and 54% of you said Foligno.
Yet here we are, approaching the quarter mark of the season, and the second line left winger job appears to be locked up by Foligno. His projected 32 points are what players like Darren Helm (third/fourth line Detroit), Paul Gaustad (third/fourth line Buffalo) and Marty Reasoner (third/fourth line Florida) managed to achieve last season.
The points are really not even the most frustrating part of Foligno's game. It is that he plays as though he is a creative, offensive, top-six style forward, when his skillset lies elsewhere. In an interview with Wayne Scanlan September, Foligno said,
"I have a chance to really be an impact player on this team, an important part of this team, and I want that," Foligno says, while gearing down from his fourth day of on-ice workouts. "I love it here and I want to definitely make a statement this year"
The evidence is clear in his game. Oftentimes Foligno will make the fancier play with the puck, instead of a simpler play that someone like Chris Neil or Zack Smith (both of whom are on pace to produce more than Foligno in a more limited role) would make. What makes Foligno such a tease is that occasionally, these plays actually work.
The problem is, these highlights are few and far between. This is what makes Nick Foligno so frustrating. He is inconsistent because he often opts for fancy, low percentage plays when he has the puck. If coach MacLean wants to play him in the top six, Foligno may be better off playing a style similar to that of Colin Greening on the first line. Making simple plays with the puck, putting the puck on net more often, and using his body to go to the front of the net more frequently. Otherwise, when Regin and Alfie come back, Foligno will likely find himself out of the top six, and into an effective third line role.
An interesting point in all of this is that while Foligno continues to be given top six minutes at even strength, he is not being counted upon to play a role in the powerplay that has been so pivotal to the Senators' success thus far. The Sens have opted to put Chris Neil on the second unit (and Bobby Butler as well) instead of Foligno.
Perhaps this is unfair to Foligno. It is possible that he's really just a good third-line player, as his stats would indicate he is. But when you see the highlight-reel moves he can pull off once in a while, it makes you wonder just how much more he might be capable of.
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Great Article!
I think that this post really enunciates a lot of the frustration your average Sens fan feels with regards to Foligno. Personally I’ve just never thought he had the foot speed for a consistent top 6 performer.
It’s only 15 games into the season, so it could be that Paul MacLean is giving Foligno an opportunity to win/lose the top 6 job, but I would argue that he’s lost his window and the time is now to give others opportunities. Throw Daugavins on the 2nd line and see where his tenacity goes, or for HEAVEN’S SAKE give Filatov an opportunity with skilled players!!
I suppose a 3rd option, one which is starting to appeal to me more and more as I think about it, is move DaCosta to the minors to build up his strength and give Foligno the 2nd line centre job. Flank him with Filatov and Alfredsson and see what happens. After all, Foligno was a C until he got to the NHL/AHL wasn’t he?
What did you guys think of Butler and Foligno being used before Filatov in the shootout? I mean, come on, if ever there was a guy built for the shootout….
Filatov will be getting an opportunity to play with skilled players such as Locke, Hoffman and Parrish soon enough. In the meantime, he has a chance to work on whatever aspects of his “200-foot game” that MacLean wants to see improved.
Bring on the AHL
I can only hope he gets sent back down to the minors. I have to admit, I don’t understand mgmt/coaching in regards to playing Filatov 5-8 minutes a night on the 4th line. He’s completely unsuited to playing an energy role, just like when DaCosta was centre’ing the 4th line.
Send him down, let him develop, and put Konopka back in the lineup.
Agreed
I’m not sure how Filatov is supposed to demonstrate what he’s learned in limited ice time.
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As I said in the game thread, Filatov needs to work on his play without the puck in the shootout.
An Ottawa Senators supporter in Toronto, Ontario. I am cool like that.
Shoot-out
Filatov seems like a good shoot-out option. I have no idea why he wasn’t used. Maybe MacLean was worried he would try a pass! ;)
I have no idea why a lot of things have happened with regards to Filatov by the Sens.
He was sent back to Binghamton today, probably for the best considering how we were playing him here.
An Ottawa Senators supporter in Toronto, Ontario. I am cool like that.
foot speed
Foligno – to me – looks like a decent skater. For a big guy he gets there at high speed and impact. I think Dave has hit the problem on the head: he’s trying to be the wrong type of player. If he did the Grening thing, which is all anyone really wanted hiom for when he was drafted, he’d be just great. I love the combination of the top line: playmaking, high speed finishing and hgh speed power and we could easily have that on the second line as well with Foligno But if not him, why not Neil or Condra or Smith or …? In other words, it’s an importnat role, and you want the best available guy to do it, but if they insist on being something they are not, move on.
He is what he is
Foligno is what he is… a wonderfully talented player who uses about 50 % of his potential. The NHL is loaded with players that you can say the same thing about. For one reason or another… mostly probably belief is themselves… the NHL is loaded with players who never realize their potential and function as average NHL players who inhabit the 3rd and 4th lines… and every once in a while wow us fans with something extraordinary.
If I live in frustration about what everyone isn’t, then hockey isn’t much fun to watch. Expecting Foligno to be a top line player is an exercise in frustration. I prefer to enjoy his physical nature and his high energy and not expect him to do more than he does.
We need to draft and develop or trade for our top line players. I think it’s time to stop expecting that of Foligno.
I agree
my argument is that, because he is clearly not a top-line player, I’d like to see him play a simpler game, a la Zack Smith.
Why?
We already have a Zack Smith-type player (I’ll leave it to you to guess who). I say we let Foligno aim higher for a couple more seasons and see where it goes.
by RogerTheShrubber on Nov 7, 2011 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
Problem is we've been letting him aim higher for a few seasons already
And it’s just not happening consistently. I wouldn’t mind seeing Foligno simplify his game if it means he’s more consistent.
Oh Captain, my Captain!
Foligno is coming. He just hasn't arrived yet.
He’s the new Gabbo. Gabbo! GABBO!
by RogerTheShrubber on Nov 7, 2011 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
Me too.
I’m sick of being his only fan.
by RogerTheShrubber on Nov 7, 2011 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
I WANT to be a fan of his
But his inconsistency is infuriating.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
Fan fail
Your statement implies that you only support success. Bandwagoner!
by RogerTheShrubber on Nov 7, 2011 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
That's a misrepresentation
It implies that he supports consistency. By your reasoning, everyone should be a big-time Alex Kovalev fan, because he can do things offensively one game in ten.
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by Peter Raaymakers on Nov 7, 2011 7:10 PM EST up reply actions
This is right.
Although I question whether you would be a fan if he was consistently bad.
Oh Captain, my Captain!
THAT is a misrepresentation
My reasoning is that you shouldn’t WANT to be a fan. You can be a fan and find his inconsistency frustrating, or not be a fan of his and still find it frustrating, but making your fandom conditional on his success (or consistency) is bandwaggonery.
I was also just teasing, since Mark is clearly a not a crappy bandwagon fan or else he’d be writing for a Bruins blog or something now.
by RogerTheShrubber on Nov 7, 2011 10:48 PM EST up reply actions
Nope not a misrepresentation.
If that’s your reasoning that’s fine, but that’s not actually what you said and Peter’s interpretation is equally plausible.
Oh Captain, my Captain!
Fair.
Semantics aside, I really was only kidding anyhow.
by RogerTheShrubber on Nov 8, 2011 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
More like waiting for Godot
I am his fan too, but it’s like waiting endlessly and in vain for him to showcase his potential. I am beginning to wonder if he is indeed Godot.
More like the Polkaroo than Godot.
According to the “inconsistent and not there when you’re looking for him” tag.
French absurdist tragicomedy to Polka Dot Door in one sentence. Bam.
by RogerTheShrubber on Nov 7, 2011 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
Until Foligno shows up in a bowler
Let’s just leave the Belgian surrealists out of this.
by RogerTheShrubber on Nov 7, 2011 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
Foligno
I think he has to look at what Greening is doing and use that as a template. He needs to cut back on the fancy stuff (if ZSmith or Neil tried those kinds of moves they would succeed once in a while, too) and focus on doing the basics as well as possible. Win battles, shoot the puck, support the puck carrier, go to the net, etc…
For me Foligno is not a “second-liner”, but that does not mean he cannot be effective playing on the second line. Back in the day Magnus Arvedsson was highly effective on a line with Radek Bonk and Marian Hossa. Arvedsson is another guy that Foligno would do well to study.
I think Foligno needs to reinvent himself.
Look at Lee as an example. He was a PMD originally, but now he’s transitioned into a good shut down defencemen. He’s not great, he’s not terrible, but he’s a good guy for the 3/4 or 5/6 pairing. Foligno is trying to be fancy, but if that isn’t working, he needs to be coached into a style that works for his skills, not his perception of his skills.
I also agree that Da Costa could use some time in the minors under Coach K, and trying Foligno out as the C between Filatov and Rooster might be an interesting, albeit bizarre, experiment.
Yeah, Foligno’s main downfall is when he tries to cut in on defenders or do like 6 moves in a row. He needs to play a simple game to be most effective and to limit his turnovers.
Co-manager, Silver Seven
Foligno = Badger
Is anybody else reminded of a badger when they see Foligno on the ice?
by fridgefullofmeat on Nov 7, 2011 11:18 AM EST reply actions
Foligno will always be Milhouse to me
An Ottawa Senators supporter in Toronto, Ontario. I am cool like that.
Remember when Vermette used to do stuff like that, too?
I remember his between the legs shot from behind the net, all those short-handed breakaways with Chris Kelly …. But he was a third liner at best in Ottawa.
Everyone has those highlights. It’s just exceptional moments in a steady day.
A Goal Horn Haiku
Hoooonk hoooonk honk honk hooooonk
That's the sound the train horn makes
Suck it, Toronto
Z. Smith
… Should be the 2nd line center. Bear with me here…
- Big scorer in AHL regular season
- Defensively sound
- Good vision on ice, efficient playmaking skills as seen in last few games
- Playoff performer: One of Bingo’s leading scorers in the playoffs last year.
- Plays hard every game
Compared to DaCosta, Regin, Foligno, I would rank Smith’s game higher IMHO.
I would rank Regin above him.
- he has better vision
- much better offensive potential
- Regin has performed in the NHL playoffs
- I don’t think he’s terrible defensively either
Now if he could only stay healthy.
But I think Smith can do spot duty on the 2nd line.
An Ottawa Senators supporter in Toronto, Ontario. I am cool like that.
interesting!
right now I see Zmith as a perfect 3rd line centre, but no doubt he has been playing exceptionally well of late. I think, in terms of playing with skill players, Da Costa has some potential for sure, and Regin played well before getting hurt. So no doubt for me, when Regin is healthy, its his spot.
I think that would be asking too much of him
I don’t think he has the speed, vision, or consistent playmaking skills to be a second line center. He’s excelling in the third line role; I don’t like the idea of moving players away from success.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
Yeah
I don’t think Z. Smith has the offensive talent to step in on a second line, and I think he’s doing a really great job on the third line and should stay there.
I just really wish Regin wasn’t injured.
Co-manager, Silver Seven
Things Sens fans say frequently:
I just really wish Regin wasn’t injured.
An Ottawa Senators supporter in Toronto, Ontario. I am cool like that.
FAIL FOR TURRIS
Am I doing it right?
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
by Mark Parisi on Nov 7, 2011 12:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If it ain't broke!
ZSmith is doing an excellent job in the 3rd line centre role right now. His line has been the most consistent all year. He has shown good chemistry with all of Ottawa’s main grinders( Condra, Daugavins, Neil).
Why mess with success?
I would add...
Z. Smith is also a leading faceoff guy, and has physical presence that DaCosta doesn’t have – he won’t get muscled off the puck as easily. Smith has never played with elite top 6 players yet still has a consistent, improving game.
I think Regin has great potential but is too inconsistent and, unfortunately, too easily injured.
I have a feeling we'll be talking more about Z. Smith's emergence in the near future...
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
The Smith debate reminds me of the old debate with Fisher.
I don’t see Smith as a 2nd line centre at all. He’s an ideal 3rd liner, as far as I’m concerned.
I agree with Foligno being on the 3rd line. He’s been one of our harder workers, but hasn’t put the points up to stay on the 2nd line. However, I would also argue that this year is all about seeing how things go, and making sure everybody is given opportunities. Last year shouldn’t even be considered, based on how shitty everything went.
by Pmoron on Nov 7, 2011 2:39 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
I understand your point but I don't think the debate is really the same
Fisher, to me, has the makings of a second-line player on the right team. I always thought he was on the bubble here, though, because we were expecting him to put up bigger numbers. But I never really thought there was anything about his play that was better suited to the third line than the second.
ZSmith, on the other hand, is a hard-working, gritty player and to me that just spells energy line. Not that Fisher wasn’t hard-working, but ZSmith just doesn’t have the finesse to be on a second line IMO.
Oh Captain, my Captain!
My concern with promoting ZSmith
ZSmith takes stupid penalties. It’s an ongoing issue with him, and bumping him up to the second line from the third makes it a bigger problem if he keeps taking stupid penalties. Just because he didn’t in the last couple of games doesn’t mean the issue is resolved.
Oh Captain, my Captain!
true
but in a recent Nuggets, Adnan showed that he draws more penalties as well
It's promising that he hasn't, though
Gives us hope that one day soon he will stop.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
Curious that, right now, there are exactly 71 votes stating that he's a third liner
Curious indeed…
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by Peter Raaymakers on Nov 7, 2011 11:59 AM EST reply actions
I'll go with what we say here.
After all, who is the real expert, us or the Sens coaching/management teams?
Me
I am an expert.
Go ahead and write it.
An Ottawa Senators supporter in Toronto, Ontario. I am cool like that.
We have to stop agreeing like this
People are beginning to talk
#2 center quest
I think we will have to be patient over the who’s second line center and do it by committee for now. Thank God it won’t be Turris.
Next year we will have a legitimate #2 guy show up. Hopefully Z’jad, or he will need another year of development and we’ll find that guy in the draft or on the trade front.
Patience will get it done.
I voted fourth line
He produces third line totals with second line minutes and teammates. I don’t know if he can do this with third line minutes.
He would probably be a decent third liner, but I just don’t understand why he keeps second line chances for years.
An Ottawa Senators supporter in Toronto, Ontario. I am cool like that.
by Adnan on Nov 7, 2011 1:13 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Foligno could still happen
I must admit, I am a Foligno fan. I really want it to work out for him.
I think he has a skill set that isn’t being used a lot in Ottawa. He and Alfie are probably our two best players along the boards. However, Ottawa doesn’t have the wicked cycle that we used to be able to work in the halcyon days of 2003-2007. We don’t get the kind of zone possessions that demand it either (maybe the causation is backwards there). This makes Foligno’s best asset kind of useless. It’s also useless on the powerplay, when most of the work is of the open-ice variety.
I think he works hard and wants to make it in Ottawa. And I don’t think doing so will necessarily involve a reinvention. It may just involve Ottawa getting better at the puck possession game that Paulrus is teaching.
by RogerTheShrubber on Nov 7, 2011 1:20 PM EST reply actions
I'm with you on this
I’m also a Foligno fan because he’s such a hard worker. He’s a good physical player who’s very good along the boards, and he’s also shown that he has alot of talent. You’d expect this to translate into points, but it hasn’t so far in his career. I just wonder if he needs to play with some different linemates. Yes, he’s getting second line minutes, but alot of them are coming with Neil and Smith, who aren’t exactly snipers. I think he’d do better with scorers, since he’s good at fighting for the puck, and can dish it out too. Kind of like Greening. Put him with Alfie and Regin when they get back and see what happens.
I agree with the Alfie and Regin pairing
That would be a secondl line that could cycle the puck. Get them out with Rundbland and Phillips and you get an extra puck mover and someone to cover the back end.
by RogerTheShrubber on Nov 7, 2011 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
I like that
I know it’s kind of loading up on the top 2 lines but we should try it:
Michalek-Spezza-Greening
Foligno-Regin-Alfredsson
Condra-Smith-Neil
Filatov-DaCosta-Butler (if we want another offensive line?)
Regin isn't available to make this happen, though
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
If you want another skill guy, slot Da Costa up there.
Not as big and fast and Regin, but very good vision.
Completely off-topic, but...
I was watching SportsCentre and there was a Derek Smith Flames player. Does anyone know if that’s our Derek Smith?
by Pmoron on Nov 7, 2011 2:43 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
Yeah he used to be one of ours.
Z Smith wore the Z because of Jason Smith, but then kept it for D Smith, and now doesn’t give a crap because he’s Zmith.
When Foligno has his first 30 goal season
I’m not going to let any of you onto the bandwagon.
by RogerTheShrubber on Nov 7, 2011 3:40 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Peter Schaefer
I think he is one step up and it is a little step from Peter Schaefer. Battles on the boards but not much more, trade bait me thinks personally unless he improves drastically, no way a second line player on a decent bench. I keep watching to see if his stick has just one piece of tape on the bottom.
I don’t dislike Foligno I think he is what he is. Don’t put him on a second line pedestal I dont think he will reach that height just a steady 3rd liner, which is sad for a 1st round draft pick.
I think you may want to pack a lunch and make it a large one as you wait for that bandwagon :-)
by You can call me Eado on Nov 7, 2011 9:56 PM EST up reply actions
Jesse
Also Jesse Winchester reminds me of Peter ‘one tape’ Schaefer. Just Saying…
by You can call me Eado on Nov 7, 2011 9:59 PM EST up reply actions

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