Silver Nuggets: What to do with the Senators defensive logjam?
With yesterday's news that Matt Carkner is nearing a return, there seems to be some discussion on what the Senators should do with their defencemen. Barring any further injuries, there will be eight healthy defencemen. Erik Karlsson, Sergei Gonchar, Filip Kuba and Chris Phillips are locks to play for now.
That leaves two spots for four players, Jared Cowen, David Rundblad, Brian Lee and Matt Carkner. I am in the minority of people who feels Rundblad has outplayed Cowen so far, especially considerng that Cowen has seen the easier opponents to play against, but Cowen has played every game this year so I would consider him a lock to play as well.
The last spot is between Rundblad, Lee and Carkner. The Senators could send Rundblad to the AHL and play Lee as the sixth defenceman with Carkner as the spare coming in for the odd game. Alternatively, they might be playing Lee right now to find a trade partner willing to take him. In the case of Lee being traded, Rundblad would almost certainly be playing and Carkner would again be a healthy scratch. Lastly, they could trade Carkner, but then they are still in the current situation where one of Rundblad or Lee are sitting every game.
I would like to keep Brian Lee for next year, but I am not sure if we can plod him along until the trade deadline and I don't think David Rundblad should be in the AHL for that length either. All that to say, it's a very tricky decision. If you made me choose by threatening to take away my cookies, I would vote for trading Carkner.
Lastly, just in case Darren cast any doubt on voting for the Senators, don't forget to vote for all the Senators on the all-star ballot. It's a good cause! Go to vote.nhl.com to vote.
General Sens News
- Erik Karlsson's eventual hall of fame career will now likely include two all-star game appearances in his first three seasons. After one week, Karlsson is leaving second place Daniel Alfredsson eating dust, with a lead of almost 16,000 votes. Alfredsson leads all forwards, while Jason Spezza is third and Milan Michalek fourth among the the forwards. Sergei Gonchar is seventh among defencemen. (Ottawa Sun)
- The Senators might have caught some teams by surprise so far, but if they keep hanging around the playoff bubble, that will change a little bit. (Ottawa Sun)
- I am not sure if I would call a 3.25 goals against average and .895 save percentage to be 'more than respectable' but Craig Anderson is certainly playing better now. His neck is fine (unlike mine) and he is expected to play on Friday. (Senators Extra)
- The Senators are practising in Ottawa for the second straight day (technically today is in a place called Rockland but I will assume it is in the Ottawa area) but they are still on a six-game road trip. That will end Friday night in Pittsburgh and the Senators will return home for one game before going on the road for another three. The road trip has been a smashing success already, with Ottawa picking up seven points in five games. (Ottawa Citizen)
- Milan Michalek is healthy and showing us what he can do. He is not going to keep scoring at his current pace, but a 30-goal season would make him a legitimate first line player right? Or at the very least, for this season anyway. (Ottawa Senators)
- Robin Lehner received his Calder Cup ring today. He has really rough looking hands. Someone get the man some cream! (Joy Lindsay)
- Everyone seems pleased with the Senators season so far. These guys are especially happy with Erik Karlsson and want to sign him up long term for lots of money. Can't say I disagree with that. It's a very long article about the Senators season, but with no games until Friday, you should read it! (Welcome To Your Karlsson Years)
- The Chicago Blackhawks as muppets. Patrick Kane's resemblance is really close to Gonzo isn't it? Also, is Jonathan Toews ever happy? (Blackhawks Down Low)
- Billionaire Nelson Peltz, father of Senators draft pick Brad Peltz, is trying to buy the New Jersey Devils. We can then trade Peltz for Zach Parise right? (Forbes)
- Kyle Turris finally signed with the Phoenix Coyotoes. It was a two-year deal with a cap hit of $1.4 million. (The 6th Sens)
- Despite Tyler Seguin's good start, Phil Kessel is doing even better. Is it possible the Leafs didn't completely get destroyed in that trade after all? (Globe and Mail)
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We can't trade Carkner.
Not after these amazing quotes…
On Crosby’s return:
"That’s easy. I can get two and two, no problem," said Carkner, who has finally been cleared for contact in his rehab from training camp knee surgery. "We’re talking two hits, two turnovers. We’ll figure it out."
On practicing for his return:
"Toe drags and no-look backhand passes are the two things I’m really working on," he said. "Slowly but surely, I’m making 50-foot backhand saucers back door, so that’s the game plan to get me back on the PP."
by sensory_experience on Nov 23, 2011 1:05 PM EST reply actions
Awesome
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
Lee and Rundblad now both better than each other.
MacLean:
"The biggest part for that is Rundblad’s play without the puck struggled," said MacLean. "Brian Lee went in and played real well, and the team played well. The team continued to win, and Brian Lee’s play didn’t go down. It elevated. He played the way he needed to play, and over this last stretch of the time, Brian Lee has been a better player, so he was in the lineup. And for those two guys, that’s the way it’s going to be."
So if Lee is better than Rundblad, and Rundblad is better than Lee … Mind. Blown.
Bottom line from my perspective is Rundblad shouldn’t be kept around to sit in the press box. If the Lee showcasing is going to take a while, give Rundblad some time in the AHL. He could use it, and Bingo could sure use him.
by sensory_experience on Nov 23, 2011 1:08 PM EST reply actions
lol
Like it!
Heard the radio interview though yesterday & PM did say ‘last week Runblad was the better player & this week Lee is better & thats just the way its going to be between these two’
Common sense is the most evenly distributed quality in all the world.
Everyone thinks they have enough.
Runblad should go to the AHL
Not permanently mind you, but he could use the playing time & the ineveitable boost in confidence an NHL player gets from playing against lesser competion.
Lee & Carkner can rotate in and out of the lineup on a winning/losing basis. Eventually or inevetably someone on the D-corps will be injured or need a game or two off to rest and that will be the opportunity to bring Runblad back up.
Save the trading of the D-man for later in the season when the market & bidding open up a bit.
Common sense is the most evenly distributed quality in all the world.
Everyone thinks they have enough.
This is the most sensible solution I can see in the whole situation. Kuba will most likely be gone at some point, so we shouldn’t be trading away assets at half value.
Space for rent.
by awr.campbell on Nov 23, 2011 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
Trade Carkner??
This would be a very very very bad decision…to me the best option is if Lee doesn’t have any trade value, which it doesn’t seem like he does, again send him to the minors risking him on waivers has proved to be a non issue in the past, rotate Runblad in to games where he can gain confidence and obviously rotate Carkner in for anyone whom might be struggling….trading a tough hard nosed character player like Carkner to keep Lee in the lineup is a really poor decision. Bottom line is who do you hitch your wagon to for the future Lee or Runblad?? Choice seems obvious…
Agreed
I just don’t think we have the physicality on the back-end to make trading Carkner an option. I know that, upon hearing about the Konopka signing, I suggested it made Carkner expendable, but I’ve since changed my mind—not because of the fighting Carkner brings, but because of the physical play and penalty killing.
Right now, if either Phillips or Cowen were to miss time due to injury, we’d be in serious trouble without Carkner. We need a player of his ilk in our D-corps.
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by Peter Raaymakers on Nov 23, 2011 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
you used the word ilk
what’s next…juxtaposition?
"I couldn't score in a brothel...couldn't finish a sandwich"
- Joe Corvo
Sam the Eagle
Everybody knows Dave Cameron looks like Sam the Eagle!!
--
by DrZee on Nov 23, 2011 2:02 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
No way dude. Paddock was Sam the Eagle

by The Dutch Treat on Nov 23, 2011 2:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I thought MIchael Chertoff had this on lockdown.
<img src=" http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2009/2/11/128788869876858475.jpg"/>
Huh?
I’m wondering how anyone could watch Cowan and Runblad’s play this year and think that Runblad has ‘outperformed’ Jared.
JC has been a rock for the Senators. He doesn’t play a flashy style but he takes the body, covers the front of the net well and moves the puck with ease.
Runblad may be better with the puck exiting the defensive zone, but he’s practically a ticking-time bomb in his zone.
At this stage, JC is much better. Especially on a team that already has Karlsson, Gonchar and Kuba moving the puck effectively.
by The Dutch Treat on Nov 23, 2011 2:03 PM EST reply actions
Rundblad has played against a much harder competition than Cowen. Cowen has mostly played against the opposition’s third lines. Even with that, the Senators allow less shots with Rundblad on the ice than with Cowen. And the Senators certainly generate a lot more with Rundblad on the ice than Cowen.
Rundblad may make more mistakes, but he also has done a lot of positive things. I think his good-bad differential has been higher than Cowen’s.
Erik Karlsson is better than your favourite player.
Twitter: @sens_adnan
Sorry Adnan, I'm with these guys
Rundblad has had some very, very impressive glimpses, but I’ve still seen more from Cowen than from Rundblad so far.
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by Peter Raaymakers on Nov 23, 2011 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
That's alright
You are all entitled to your incorrect opinions. ;)
Erik Karlsson is better than your favourite player.
Twitter: @sens_adnan
There is no such thing, friend
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by Peter Raaymakers on Nov 23, 2011 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
I believe opinions that disagree with mine are defined as being incorrect. Look it up.
Erik Karlsson is better than your favourite player.
Twitter: @sens_adnan
I'm with you in thinking Cowen's been better
He’s been a key cog on the team’s penalty kill, and adds a physical presence that is needed on the blueline.
Rundblad’s been good offensively, and actually better than I thought he’d be defensively for the most part, but at least twice a game or so he does something really silly in his own zone (particularly behind his own net).
Co-manager, Silver Seven
Why don't we rotate out?
I know this is probably not the most ideal situation, but barring the players wanting to be sent down to the b-sens, why don’t we just rotate defensemen in and out of the lineup to give others breaks? This way we could have a rested d-corps come April [optimist] when [/optimist] we make the playoffs.
Rundblad to Bingo
I feel bad for the B-Sens, they have had some serious struggles this season. I think the Sens should send them Rundblad for a while as a little pick-me-up. With him and Filatov on the power play they should start converting at a high rate of efficiency. Also, it might light a bit more of a fire under Wiercioch who seems to have been inconsistent this season.
Btw, is Rundblad still elligible for World Juniors? If he is not too old I imagine Sweden would be extremely grateful if the Senators made his available to them. As a fan of Canada’s World Junior team, I hope he is too old.
The top five are locked
Paul MacLean said as much in an interview on TEAM 1200 last night: Karlsson, Gonchar, Phillips, Kuba, and Cowen are all set in stone on his roster (unless, of course, one of them is traded).
That leaves Carkner, Lee, and Rundblad rotating the sixth spot. MacLean said he hates rotating two through that spot, and would not be keen to try three; this leads me to believe that Rundblad is almost certainly headed to Bingo until a trade is made, with either Lee or Kuba as the guy moving.
I agree that retaining Lee would be for the best. But between Lee, Carkner, and Rundblad, Lee is who I’d move.
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by Peter Raaymakers on Nov 23, 2011 2:50 PM EST reply actions
The reason I would prefer to trade Carkner is that he has no future with the team. Lee is only 24 and could still develop into something more.
Carkner is what he is.
Erik Karlsson is better than your favourite player.
Twitter: @sens_adnan
Either of them are as likely as the other to develop into something more, I’d say. And I disagree that Carkner has no future with this team; why wouldn’t he? He’s only 31, after all.
Brian Lee hasn’t given me much reason to believe he can ever offer more to the team than what Matt Carkner offers the team today.
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by Peter Raaymakers on Nov 23, 2011 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
A 24-year old still has a lot more room for development than a 31-year old. Seems pretty logical to me. A 31-year old has already peaked, and typically a 24-year old has not.
Erik Karlsson is better than your favourite player.
Twitter: @sens_adnan
As a general rule, absolutely
But I’m not talking about general rules. I’m talking about Brian Lee and Matt Carkner.
Anyway, we obviously don’t agree. And even if we did agree, neither of us is the team’s general manager; we’ll just have to wait and see what he chooses, and time will tell which of us is closer to reality!
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by Peter Raaymakers on Nov 23, 2011 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
For the record, I wouldn’t be exactly surprised if we traded Brian Lee though.
Erik Karlsson is better than your favourite player.
Twitter: @sens_adnan
Carkner is the Chicago Bears.
"I couldn't score in a brothel...couldn't finish a sandwich"
- Joe Corvo
Paulrus included Cowen as set in stone in the roster, eh?
That’s good to hear. Remember two years ago when he had a bad world juniors and everyone declared that picking him was a mistake?
I think we had a fanpost saying picking Cowen over Paajarvi was akin to Lee over Kopitar.
Co-manager, Silver Seven
I'm okay with this
Not thrilled about the part about “retaining Lee would be for the best” but that’s more because of my (oft-repeated) opinion that he’ll do better on any other team and so it’s in everyone’s best interests to move him. Even if we get another bland (Ann) defenseman in return and it does nothing to clear the logjam.
Oh Captain, my Captain!
Still not a win
The author of that article seems to misremember the terms of that trade. If it had been Kessel for Seguin straight up it might be an ok trade for the Leafs now, but it wasn’t. Throw in Dougie Hamilton and Jared Knight and this trade still isn’t even close. Knight is a solid top 9 prospect and Hamilton will play in Boston’s top 4. Also Seguin leads the defending Stanley Cup champs in points, so he isn’t exactly a slouch himself. Apparently anyone with little to no hockey knowledge can write for the Globe and Mail.
Yeah, that was a stupid article. But it panders to the Leafs crowd, who probably love reading about how awesome they are. And to be fair, he never states that Burke “won” the trade, but only did a good job.
It would almost be impossible for the Leafs to “win” the trade at this point. Boston traded away the present, to build a better future…and then won the cup. So basically they gave away nothing (since without Kessel they had the best team) for their 3 prospects.
But just because Burke “lost” doesn’t mean he didn’t do a good job. The Leafs will probably make the playoffs, fans will start caring again. It’s not thinking long term, but hell, he’ll probably keep his job for another 5 years.
by BD Rebuilders on Nov 23, 2011 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
It's not long term that defines it as a loss
Kessel is only 5 years older than Seguin.
It’s the fact that Kessel was supposed to help IMMEDIATELY – not 3 seasons later.
Maybe there are no losers...but teams won.
by whatsinaname on Nov 23, 2011 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
I meant "both teams won"
I am not disagreeing with your statement at all. Kessel is giving Toronto what it expects of him, a bona fide scorer now and many years to come.
by whatsinaname on Nov 23, 2011 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
Gotcha
Though I think a quarter of a season is too early to properly label Kessel as a bona fide scorer.
I say he is, not just based on the 1st qtr of this season (16 goals),
but the last three years as well: 32, 30 & 36. Those are damn good stats.
by whatsinaname on Nov 23, 2011 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
I remember something to the effect of
“Phil Kessel is a 40 goal scorer in this league, and we think he’ll score 50 here with us” – I’m sure someone can attribute some words to that effect coming out of BB’s mouth right?
Common sense is the most evenly distributed quality in all the world.
Everyone thinks they have enough.
I'd say he's bona fide
He’s scored at least thirty goals three years in a row, and is sure to score at least that many this year.
Even if Kessel is a bona fide scorer, Seguin is a bona fide all around player. This trade will never look anything like good. A centre from Brampton or a winger from Wisconsin, which is worth more to the Leafs? Throw in the top defenceman in the 2011 draft and it looks like a horrible job. Only now that Kessel is having some legitimate success can it be said that the trade wasn’t a total disaster. This trade is still just a level below the Spezza and Chara for Yashin deal.
Woo hoo Brampton!
Erik Karlsson is better than your favourite player.
Twitter: @sens_adnan
by Adnan on Nov 23, 2011 6:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Not sure your definition of good trade is the same as Burke's
Not pretending that I know either, but Toronto seems to be very happy getting Kessel in exchange for Seguin & Hamilton. If that is the case, then the trade is a success, to Toronto because Kessell has been scoring as expected.
by whatsinaname on Nov 23, 2011 8:30 PM EST up reply actions
plus the B's won it all in Sequin's first season...
that trade will never look good on Burkie…even if Kessel wins the Art Ross….cause Seguin will be, what, 11 points behind him?
"I couldn't score in a brothel...couldn't finish a sandwich"
- Joe Corvo
to Lee or not to Lee, Carkner and Rundblad
Obviously Rundblad won’t be traded unless you get Kyle Turis for him or something of that caliber. I would make that deal and I feel it would be fair, but there is a reason I am not a GM :) both players have a lot of potential, but we would have to add extra body or pick in that trade, because Phoenix may think we are trying to rob them.
I am sure Mr. Murray is activelly looking for options to trade both Carkner and Lee (not at once), but their value is rather small and in return you might get just draft picks or some prospects who would not fill any spots on current Sens roster. Is it worth it?
Lee is more valuable, especially since he has been playing recently, and doing pretty decent job. Carkner on the other hand is still couple weeks of conditioning away from playing and he will most likley spend some time in Bngo for conditioning. If he can’t play on our team yet, no one will take him to (not) play on theirs either, not right now!
This is a dilemma that we are having because we have all of our defence healthy. Look around the league – this is a luxury that very few teams can afford. Imagine (fingers crossed) that one of the 3 veteran Ds were to get injured – Kuba, Gonchar or Philips (ok, Karlson is a veteran too, so he is 4th) and our D sudenly starts to look much less experienced and reliable. You can not have too much depth on D… Trade no one, wait till deadline! Unless Phoenix comes calling, then all bets are off…
Go Sens Go!
Rundblad and a pick for Turris?
Is this serious? :P
Erik Karlsson is better than your favourite player.
Twitter: @sens_adnan
I was suggesting straight up
But it depends how bad Phoenix needs to trade him and how much longer are we willing to deal with a hole on the second line C. There are other 28 teams in the league who would be making offers for K.Turris, so you won’t be getting him cheap. I know he only scored 25 points last season, but on the ice he is much better than at contract negotiations… :)
And back to the subject… Since Kuba most likely will be traded before the deadline, we will need Lee, Carkner and Rundblad till the end of this season, unless something goes terribly wrong in the next couple months and there has to be a fire sale again…
(I forget to click reply button all the time…)
Go Sens Go!
Alright fair enough
Sorry if my comment seemed rude by the way. I just found it surprising.
Erik Karlsson is better than your favourite player.
Twitter: @sens_adnan
I think even Rundblad straight-up for Turris would be an overpayment, personally
And I’m not entirely convinced there are 28 other teams in the league looking at him seriously… Maybe there are, but I’ve only heard of 5-6 teams seriously looking at him.
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by Peter Raaymakers on Nov 23, 2011 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
I definitely wouldnt make that trade straight-up.
Rundblad is going through a learning period, but I strongly believe he has the necessary skills to be one of the great defensemen in this league.
I'm sure the upsides to Rundblad are better than Turris
Besides, I want to one day see an all Swedish starting five in Ottawa…of pure offense.
by whatsinaname on Nov 23, 2011 4:54 PM EST up reply actions
Turris is a third pick
Turris is 3rd!!! pick, he is projected to be at very least a solid top 6 forward on any team. I know Rundblad has a lot to offer, but one fantastic season in Sweden and one 200 feet pass does not make him Hall of Fame candidate at the end of his career. Watching him live you still can see how uncomfortable he is sometimes and mistakes are as bad as anyone’s. I feel he may become the same player as Karlsson, but with bigger body, better defence, which would make him even better, but it is all speculation…. He may also end up being Alexandre Picard #2 (I hope not)…
This would be a trade that addresses both organization’s need. And I would be sad to see Rundblad go, I love the way Cowen, Karlsson and Rundblad fit it and the future looks great with them on the blueline, but on offence we desperately lack good center, Turris can fill that gap and develop into mini Spezza.
I would be glad if we could trade someone like Filatov for him, but that is crazy talk… just my opinion…
Go Sens Go!
And what, pray tell, makes Turris a "Hall of Fame candidate at the end of his career"?
In my eye, Rundblad has done more to prove he’s an NHL regular than Kyle Turris has so far, so that’s why this trade would make little sense to me.
Draft position doesn’t really matter much, after the player is drafted. Alexander Svitov was a third overall pick once, too. So was Cam Barker. Patrik Stefan was picked first overall in 1998. That’s not to say that Turris won’t work out; I just mean that being selected third overall isn’t a guarantee of anything.
I’d love to acquire Turris. I don’t think we should (or would need to) give up Rundblad to do so.
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by Peter Raaymakers on Nov 24, 2011 9:07 AM EST up reply actions
what has Rundblad done to prove that?
I do not know what we are using as a basis to compare players, but I know that our opinions are very biased. I agree, draft position can not be used as the only factor determining the value of a player. Phil Kessel in his first two years had 66 points in 152 games (.434). Ryan Kesler in first 3+ seasons had 81 points in 238 games (.340). Kyle Turris in first 2 seasons – 46points in 131 games (.351). What is Kessel’s worth now? And Kesler’s? Player’s development is tricky to predict, but if you give a chance, plenty of playing time, in right conditions you can get results at the end. If you could get Kesel or Kesler now for Rundblad… I’d love to give less than Rundblad (Patrick Wiercioch, Brian Lee or Matt Carkner) for Turris, but we are not the only team who wants to acquire him, and I do not see Phoenix desperately trying to trade him – they have waited till December to sign him, I think they can wait till February to trade him. Would hurt to see Rundblad go however… but you can’t have your cake and eat it too…
Go Sens Go!
TaBu, what makes you so high on Turris? He hasn’t shown anything special in the NHL yet and honestly there are plenty of high picks that flame out (Daigle being the prime example around here).
As far as Rundblad, he was the best defenseman in the SEL last season and has already had some good games in Ottawa. Trading him now would be very premature.
If Turris was available for a reasonable price then it would be great to take a gamble on him (like the Sens are doing with Filatov). I would argue that giving up Rundblad to get Turris is paying way too high a price.
The problem with that is, we are not desperate to get him either. Sure he might help now, but is there any reason why the likelihood he becomes a good second line centre is better than that of Mika Zibanejad?
Or even Peter Regin for that matter. Regin has 48 points in 141 games, which is only slightly lower than Turris.
On the other hand, who would replace Rundblad down the line?
Erik Karlsson is better than your favourite player.
Twitter: @sens_adnan
I see our biggest problem right now in Center position: Da Costa is spinning wheels, Regin has overpromissed and underdelivered, and Zibanajad is a full year away from even making our team. Everyone is learning on this team and it may be premature to trade anyone, but hindsight is 20/20 and we can not see the future.
Having three strong centers has never been a problem for any team, just ask Penguins or Bruins about that… It is unlikely and impossible to have same quality centers as those two teams, but we either sign some great UFA to fill that second line spot or trade for young one right now. This team is probably still at least 18 months away from signing any UFA to a big contract, so trading seems to be the only option and Turris fits the bill. I am not high on him, I am not completely sold on him either, but I think he is the best option for us – young, skilled, has couple years of experience under his belt.
Since Phoenix wants prospect and a first rounder, I think price is too high. Rundblad would be hard to replace, but right now he is 6th Dman at best, we are talking about trading 6th D for 2nd C… of course that is where they would be on the roster at this moment, and Rundblad very well may develop into a top 2 Dman, but Turris could also become 60-70 point scorer…
Rundblad would have to be replaced by Lee or Borowiecki/Wiercioch/Claesson in the future.
Go Sens Go!
The upside to Runblad at this point is much higher
than the upside to Turris. Runblad is only 12 games into his NHL career. Turris is 131 games into his.
We’re still one top 4 defensive prospect away from having a solid D corps for years (Karlsson, Cowen, Runblad are the top 3).
It isn’t about what the team needs now. It is all about what the team needs in 2 – 3 years to compete for Stanley.
If Turris is available – you give up one of Regin/Butler/DaCosta & a 2nd round pick. If they don’t want it, walk away.
Common sense is the most evenly distributed quality in all the world.
Everyone thinks they have enough.
I started with an assumption that Phoenix wants D prospect, maybe that is where I went wrong… but if you are willing to only make an offer you cknow they do not want, why make an offer at all?
Would Lee and 2nd rounder have enough value to trade for Turris? If we count games… Lee has 142 NHL games experience :)
Go Sens Go!
Lee is a defenseman
Phoenix is set for D.
How do we know they don’t want Regin, Butler or DaCosta? Like all trades, it is a negotiation. Each side trying to get more for their team than what they are giving up. You have to start somewhere & have a cap as to what you will give up.
Common sense is the most evenly distributed quality in all the world.
Everyone thinks they have enough.
The difference between getting Kessel or Kesler for Rundblad...
Is that Kessel and Kesler are known quantities—we know that they are bona fide top-line players in the league. The same cannot be said of Turris, who is an unknown quantity—we do not know what his potential in this league is.
Rundblad is also an unknown quantity, that I will readily admit. In general, trading an unknown quantity for an unknown quantity is nothing better than a crapshoot, or a gamble.
I may be biased in my assessments of Rundblad’s potential, but I see a player who was the best defenceman in the Swedish Elite League as a 19-year-old playing against men; Turris has nothing that impressive on his resume. For that reason, I would be more interested in retaining Rundblad than in trading him for Turris.
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by Peter Raaymakers on Nov 24, 2011 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
I was suggesting straight up
But it depends how bad Phoenix needs to trade him and how much longer are we willing to deal with a hole on the second line C. There are other 28 teams in the league who would be making offers for K.Turris, so you won’t be getting him cheap. I know he only scored 25 points last season, but on the ice he is much better than at contract negotiations… :)
And back to the subject… Since Kuba most likely will be traded before the deadline, we will need Lee, Carkner and Rundblad till the end of this season, unless something goes terribly wrong in the next couple months and there has to be a fire sale again…
Go Sens Go!
Cowen, Rundblad, Lee, even Carkner …. why does it have to be zany young guys?
Can’t we find some 51-year old and sign him?
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Nov 23, 2011 6:46 PM EST reply actions
That's crazy stuff
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by Peter Raaymakers on Nov 23, 2011 7:26 PM EST up reply actions
Even crazier is that the NHL's promoting it as an uplifiting, inspirational story
When really it’s scary how hard up the Wild are right now if they have to sign a 51 year-old. Call me crazy, but that does not strike me as feel good news.
Oh Captain, my Captain!
It's an odd situation though
How many teams keep enough goaltenders around to have a spare on short notice, on the busiest US travel day of the year?
Normally you call up someone from within your system. The Wild did it, but they had concerns about him getting from Houston to St Paul in time. I think this is more of a statement on the state of amateur hockey in the area rather than how hard up the Wild are.
Exactly
We’ve seen teams do this before, with web editors and local college players and stuff. None of them were 51 years old, but, to be honest, I seriously doubt they’d have put him in for very much. And if they did, he would have been heavily protected by something even more defensively-minded than a 1-3-1 (think of an 0-3-2 “forecheck”) and his expectations would be insanely low.
It would have required a serious, serious injury for them to take out the one NHL guy they have in nets, and replace him with a 51-year-old. These injuries are rare. It’s possible, but highly unlikely.
Suffice to say, I could see it as feel-good news. Pretty amazing experience for the guy.
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by Peter Raaymakers on Nov 24, 2011 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, they're usually college/university players
But with thanksgiving weekend, it’s quite possible there weren’t any of those still in the area.
It would be all 5 guys in your own zone!
Erik Karlsson is better than your favourite player.
Twitter: @sens_adnan
Not quite
0-3-2 just means no forechecking, and three guys floating around the red line, with the other two (presumably defencemen) around the defensive blue line. It’s like a tighter version of the trap.
0-0-5 would be the ridiculous format of all guys in the defensive zone.
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by Peter Raaymakers on Nov 24, 2011 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
No I was saying if we had to play 51-year old guy for 2-3 minutes because Anderson had equipment problems or whatever, I’d like us to do 0-0-5.
Erik Karlsson is better than your favourite player.
Twitter: @sens_adnan
Although…that would mean the puck is always in our zone. So scratch that…
Erik Karlsson is better than your favourite player.
Twitter: @sens_adnan
Hahahaa... well, once you have possession, the 0-0-5 is scratched
There would be a lot of dumping, very little (read: none) chasing, and once in a while you might get a scoring chance if your breakout works perfectly.
It’s familiar to those of us who played house league hockey and had to deal with a night when no goalie would show up. Those were long nights, but it wasn’t unheard of for the goaltender-less team to WIN because they were playing such a conservative style. Even 13-year-olds can understand a 0-0-5 system.
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by Peter Raaymakers on Nov 24, 2011 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
Ha!
More goals scored than shots allowed? That’s awesome!
Erik Karlsson is better than your favourite player.
Twitter: @sens_adnan
Well, I'd still say they're hard up (just in a different way) if that's the best available in the area
Either way, though, I don’t read it as a happy, feel good story about this guy getting a chance to break into the NHL.
Oh Captain, my Captain!
Hang on a bit
In a perfect world where no one gets injured… yeah make a trade. If the Sens could have gotten something for Lee, he’d be gone a long time ago. So we are just looking at dumping him for virtually nothing. Lee would probably develop much better somewhere else where he’d get a full time chance at least for a while, rather than the in and out of the lineup he gets here…. but unfortunately he’ll never be worthy of his 1st round pick.
Cowen is a different sort of a dman that the team needs to develop desperately… so he needs to play. Rundblad is the obvious man to be left out right now… mainly because of the old “contract situation”. He needs to wait until Phillips, Gonchar and Kuba are out to pasture, until he gets free reign to be one of the top guys here.
Do we really need Carkner’s one dimension… his hitting? We’ll see how he plays post injury. I wouldn’t make any moves until that is determined.
At least the “trade Kuba” bandwagon has quieted down, as he has turned into our best shut-down guy.
As an aside, it’s interesting to see that Brian Elliot couldn’t stop anything with this defence (or close to it) in front of him, but with the no name Blues D in front of him, he’s turned into a world beater Vezina candidate.
Agreed that the Sens should wait to make a trade
Sending Rundblad to Bingo for a spell wouldn’t hurt. Lee and Carkner can rotate spending time in the press box (I suppose) until someone gets moved at the trade deadline, or not, as the case may be.
Yup
Rundblad to Bingo isn’t optimal, but it’s a lot easier to reverse that decision than to reverse a trade, in the event of an injury to one of your top defenceman.
Personally, I think Rundblad would benefit from time in Binghamton. I’m not sure why he isn’t down there playing games yet.
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by Peter Raaymakers on Nov 24, 2011 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn’t call Pietrangelo and Shattenkirk no namers, those kids are good and going to be great.
Space for rent.
by awr.campbell on Nov 24, 2011 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
2008 Draft - unrelated comment
Lots of good and great players are developing out of that draft:
Karlsson, Stamkos, Pietrangelo, Doughty, Bogosian, Myers, Del Zotto, Eberle,
The list goes on…
I refuse to vote in this poll
I demand a poll centred around that picture of Foligno as a weatherman.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
Re. Turris, via SensChirp.
“The bar has apparently been set at a quality prospect and a first round pick.”
Well, who is willing to do this? :)
That means in a negotiation, the bar can be lowered
In my eyes, you offer DaCosta + 2nd round pick.
Up it to Regin + 2nd round through negotiations – they can take it or walk.
Anything else is overpaying.
Common sense is the most evenly distributed quality in all the world.
Everyone thinks they have enough.
I'm still in the 'Trade Kuba' camp.
Dude has been a solid player so far this year, but we have the talent to make up for losing him easily. So I say trade Kuba to someone looking for a solid vet D-man without a huge commitment, slot Rundo in his place and alternate Lee and Carks in the sixth slot. Perfect world scenario there for me.
Otherwise, I’d say send Rundblad to hang out with Filatov in the AHL until things clear up. Da Costa too, but that’s a whole ’nother thing.
Scholar, Gentleman, Shameless Sens Homer with a Heart of Gold.
by Johnny_Spectacular on Nov 24, 2011 10:57 AM EST via mobile reply actions
It’s starting to look like Da Costa will be sent down when Regin returns. Dude needs some Vitamin KK for his game.
Space for rent.
by awr.campbell on Nov 24, 2011 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
Nothing in return
What do you think an aging veteran with a history of injury problems and a $3.7 contract that is expiring is worth? A sixth rounder maybe if you are lucky… so we’d basically be giving Kuba up for next to nothing, which IMO is insanity.
There is a reason why Kuba is second on the team in ice time right now. Do you really want to give that away in return for Brian Lee and Carkner taking up that ice time? That is a recipe for one more goal per game against in return for a 6th rounder. No thanks.
lots in return
Surely Murray can get at least a 2nd rounder for Kuba at the deadline…no? If Toronto could trade Kaberle for Boston’s first round pick, prospect Joe Colborne and a conditional draft pick, I say – “so can we”. Age difference between Kaberle and Kuba is just over 1 year, they are both offensive minded veteran defencemen who as Kaberle has proven, will help you (or at least will not hurt you enough) to win the cup. Let’s aim for the sky… Yes we can! :D
Go Sens Go!
I agree
The team is still rebuilding. If the Senators can get a good return on Kuba at, say, the deadline, I don’t care if that means his minutes have to go to lesser defensemen (which sounds odd, saying that about Kuba) or that the Sens allow an extra goal per game on average. Of course, I should emphasise the conditional aspect: If the Senators can get a good return on Kuba, he should be traded. The trade deadline is late enough that the team won’t be suffering from his absence for very long.
Please no Turris
I’d rather have Regin or Da Costa than Turris even without the draft pick. Forget about reclamation projects and let’s concentrate on BUILDING. Players tend to bring whatever problems they had in their previous organization with them.
We aren’t privy to all of the conversations and reasons why Turris hasn’t developed. Do you want a player who will hold out if he’s not happy? A VERY LARGE NO!!!
Do we really need “another” underachieving or “overrated” (depending on how you look at it player? No we don’t. If we give up on Da Costa after a handful of games, what does that say about us? He’s 22 years old and has played 25 NHL games. Patience will get us there.
There is No Log-Jam on Defense!
Seriously, I’m sure we’ll have at least two injured D for some long period this season and be thanking our stars for the wealth of prospects. There is absolutely no problem with rotating Lee and Runblad in and out. Lee is solid and young. Keep him for the future. Kuba should be traded though at the deadline since his contract is terminating and by that time the teams development would benefit from having both Lee and Runblad in the lineup more often.
This is a rebuild – I’d trade Gochar and Kuba before Lee or Runblad
What do you do with Carkner until there is an injury though if you are rotating Lee and Rundblad in and out?
Erik Karlsson is better than your favourite player.
Twitter: @sens_adnan
I'm with you in holding out moving defensemen, but for different reasons
If there are injuries down the road, Borowiecki, Wiercioch & Gryba will be able to step in to fill a 6th d-man role until the injury situation clears itself up.
I think we need to hold off until a market opens up a bit more for defenseman. Right now there are too few teams looking to make moves.
Common sense is the most evenly distributed quality in all the world.
Everyone thinks they have enough.
There isn't a logjam yet
But the point of this thread is that Carkner is ready to return, at which point (pending other injuries) there will be a logjam, in the form of eight healthy defencemen. MacLean has said his preference is not to cycle through eight guys. Ergo, a move is likely to happen if an injury doesn’t.
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by Peter Raaymakers on Nov 24, 2011 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
…you ask Carkner to fake an injury until someone gets a real one… “my tummy hurts” – upper body injury!!! 1-4 weeks!
Go Sens Go!
Poor form
How about reassigning him instead of essentially making him a healthy scratch?
Oh Captain, my Captain!
14 days max
Yeah, but he can not stay for more than 14 days in Bingo on a conditioning stint… (BTW that is where Turris is headed starting Sunday), so with couple more weeks of rehab I am sure Carkner can buy us another month to decide what to do. I was shacking my head when Murray signed Lee on a one way contract, if he was on a two way, we would not have this problem now, It is not like Lee was UFA then and had to be signed at all costs..
Go Sens Go!
My point was that it's preferable to having him fake an injury.
Especially because no player will fake an injury, so what you’re suggesting would actually end up meaning scratching him.
Oh Captain, my Captain!
sure, but what if my tummy hurts....
I agree, obviously every player wants to be back on ice ASAP and some will come back even if they are not 100% ready. I was just trying to be funny :)
Go Sens Go!
I'd like to trade Lee (as I've said many times before) even if we straight up trade him for someone of the same age and skill level. The kid will do better anywhere else.
Also that picture of Foligno scares me.
Oh Captain, my Captain!

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