Silver Nuggets: Second line centre trade rumours
Bruce Garrioch wrote last night that the Senators might be considering acquiring Derick Brassard. With Peter Regin injured and Stéphane Da Costa struggling, the club has a need for a second line centre. Brassard has steadily improved from 2 points in 17 games in his first season, to 25 points in 31 games, 36 points in 79 games and 47 points in 74 games last season. So far this season, he has 4 points in 15 games and a -11 plus/minus rating.
He is only 24-years old and could turn out to be a good second line centre. However, he still has another 2-years at $3.2 million a season left on his deal. With Mika Zibanejad expected to make the club next season, and Da Costa also presumably improving, will the club have the room for Brassard over the long term?
What would it take to acquire him? Regin or Da Costa would probably be a part of a deal, as it wouldn't make sense to keep that many potential second line centres around. However, Regin and Da Costa are both on cheap deals and both are restricted free agents at the end of the season, Brassard is a bit more expensive. Considering his salary, and the likely cost to acquire him, I would pass. Another player that has been mentioned is Matt Stajan. Stajan has only 2 points in 12 games this season, and 31 in 76 last season. The two seasons before that, he put up 57 and 55 points. Stajan will be 28 next year and has another 2-years at $3.5 million each. I would definitely pass on him.
Links after the jump. Also, keep in mind that as tonight's game is a 9:00 start, the game thread won't be up until 7:00 p.m.
Tonight's game
- Game preview. (Ottawa Sun, Senators Extra)
- Almost everyone predicts a low scoring game and all but two predict a Calgary win. One of the two is Peter who is going with 3-1 Ottawa. (Senators Extra)
General Sens News
- Can Milan Michalek keep up his current pace and hit 50 goals? Very unlikely but Michalek thinks he can, although he did laugh when he said it. Coming into this season, Michalek had a career shooting percentage of 12.0% while this season he is shooting at a 19.6% rate that is unsustainable. Michalek would have seven goals if he was shooting at 12.0% this season. That is still a 32 goals pace, which would be a career high. (Ottawa Citizen, Ottawa Sun)
- Remember when everyone laughed at me for saying Erik Karlsson's arms are getting very big? Well, Elliotte Friedman thinks so too now. Apparently he did a lot of gymnastics over the summer to improve his strength and balance. (CBC)
- When I said last week that despite his disapproval of Nikita Filatov's treatment by the organisation, Alex Fletcher is not me? Well Fletcher isn't making my denial any easier by writing about Erik Karlsson quickly becoming the Senators go-to player and being used in every situation. (Sportsnet Fan Fuel)
- Here is a defence of Nick Foligno that should please some of you. Foligno might not become a true second line player, but Varada is okay with that and points out that Foligno is around the same age as Colin Greening. (Welcome To Your Karlsson Years)
- How Swedish are the Sens? Even our American goalie used to have a Swedish name. Our number one goaltender used to be Craig Andersson. It was never his legal name though and the NHL made him drop the extra 's'. (Sportsnet)
- It could be my severe dislike for the Penguins and Maple Leafs, but what is Gary Roberts doing any where near Hall of Fame discussions? My four would be Joe Sakic, Brendan Shanahan, Mats Sundin and Pavel Bure. (Yahoo!)
- The Senators recent struggles see them dropped to 26th in the NHL power rankings. The New York Rangers are tops. (TSN)
- The great people at Arctic Ice Hockey attempt to create a predictive equation for shots for/shots against per 60 minutes using offensive zone starts. It's a good way to check which player is outperforming their expected shots count. For example, Jason Spezza's 63.6% offensive zone starts would predict 28.7 shots for per 60 minutes, while the Sens actually have 34.0 shots per 60 minutes of Spezza's ice time. (Arctic Ice Hockey)
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I saw that 30 Thoughts post and laughed.
I think I’d be ok with Brassard if it involved a low end draft pick. I really don’t like the idea of trading anyone with the exception of Konopka (maybe Lee). With teams having salary cap issues, maybe all it would take is the pick?
by Pmoron on Nov 15, 2011 1:15 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I seriously doubt it
I think it would take more than just a draft pick, and certainly more than a low-end draft pick. Columbus may be in a tough position trying to unload salary, but that doesn’t mean they’ll have to accept the first offer that comes along. I’d expect it to take a real asset to acquire him, perhaps a defenceman and a mid-round pick.
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by Peter Raaymakers on Nov 15, 2011 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
“I really don’t like the idea of trading anyone with the exception of Konopka (maybe Lee)”
Another individual who is following the majority apparently?? What exactly is your assessment of Konopka’s game that you think he is the only player that is expendable even though he has 1 more goal than many players on the roster…
Columbus will not trade for anything unless they are taking back a plyer that can help them NOW!
Common sense is the most evenly distributed quality in all the world.
Everyone thinks they have enough.
2 things:
1. The “some of us” pleased with the defence of Nick Foligno are just me, and 6/31sts of Mark.
2. Gary Roberts totally deserves to be in the HOF. He did, after all, repeatedly win the Toronto-equivalent of the Stanley Cup Finals: an early-round playoff series against Ottawa. Oh and a Stanley Cup, but that wasn’t with a team that gets you automatic HOF consideration so it doesn’t count for much.
by RogerTheShrubber on Nov 15, 2011 1:24 PM EST reply actions
2nd line centre
I can see the idea of “buying low” in the suggestion of picking up either Brassard or Stajan, but if we are going by what all three have done this season then I think you could make an argument that Da Costa is matching if not outplaying both Brassard and Stajan. Either of them might bounce back given a change of scenary, but at the same time Da Costa may steadily improve as the season goes along.
I don’t mind picking up Brassard if the price is reasonable (then Da Costa could be the #1C in Bingo where they need some help), but Stajan is over-priced, not to mention contaminated with Leaf-syndrome (ie. his rep is better than his skills). If a deal along the lines of Lee for Brassard was realistic, I would be in favour of it, but I don’t in any way expect that to happen.
I think the question "is there room for him?" is often answered in no time
First of all, it’s better to have too many top-six players than two few; I’d much prefer a second-liner playing on Ottawa’s third line than a third-liner playing on the second.
Secondly, roster logjams have a way of clearing up. Some players have ‘off-years,’ others have injuries, others aren’t consistent enough to play every night.
Depending on the cost, I think Brassard would be a shrewd acquisition for the Senators to make. He’s a young player with a strong upside who would fit in well on the current Senators roster.
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by Peter Raaymakers on Nov 15, 2011 2:06 PM EST reply actions
Wow, I'm on a completely different side
I think at some point, we have to find out what we have in Da Costa and Regin. This is the season to give them minutes because no one’s harboring realistic expectations of playoff wins.
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Agreed.
Though “depending on the cost” leaves a lot of wiggle room, i think “young player with a strong upside who would fit in well on the current Senators roster” describes most of the Senators roster.
I’m not sure that Brassard brings enough to justify the cost of acquiring him.
by RogerTheShrubber on Nov 15, 2011 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
I just don't see the point of giving them minutes
I’m a heartless bastard, I guess, but it’s sink or swim with me. If you can’t outplay another player, then you don’t get the ice time; you get precious few opportunities to test your mettle, so take advantage of those few.
In the end, it doesn’t matter whether our second-line centre is Mika Zibanejad, Stéphane Da Costa, Peter Regin, or Derrick Brassard. What matters is having the best player in that role that you possibly can.
If Brassard outplays the other three, then Zibanejad and Da Costa spend another year in the developmental leagues, while Regin spends the season trying to outplay Brassard. Internal competition is what we should be striving for.
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by Peter Raaymakers on Nov 15, 2011 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
You are a hearltess bastard
How are they supposed to outplay someone if they never get the chance?
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
I just think you have to earn your chances
You aren’t given your chances. You go down, work your ass off, and make them call you up and play you on the second line. Then you keep working your ass off until the job is yours.
In time, as long as you’re working, you will get chances. It’s a player’s responsibility to make the best of those few chances he gets (if it’s one shift or if it’s one game), and then the coaching staff will give you more chances—and you need to make the best of those ones.
I just think that professional hockey players will very rarely be given chances. Insisting that they earn their chances is my preference.
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by Peter Raaymakers on Nov 15, 2011 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
This is probably more applicable as players get older
I think the younger players should get more leeway. They get some chances, and they can lose them, but they can also earn more.
Also, there’s a catch 22 somewhere in saying that you have to take your chances to earn chances. It’s a bit like going into job markets where all the entry-level jobs require 2 years of experience.
by RogerTheShrubber on Nov 15, 2011 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
Well, this clearly isn't working
Any top 6 prospects we have are now leaving, because of lack of a fair shake. Filatov has gone back to Russia. I think we need to revamp our handling of the rebuild before this kind of thing becomes a trend and we trade for a bunch of former top 10 picks who don’t see the ice because we’re giving college free agents all the ice time.
Wait. What?
Filatov back to Russia?
Joy Lindsay tweeted 7 hours ago that he would be on the BSens 2nd line tonight.
some Russian journalist started this rumour
There was an article that said CSKA Moscow is interested in Filatov. Filatov hasn’t said anything to show interest and Joy said he didn’t look unhappy to be in Binghamton this morning.
An Ottawa Senators supporter in Toronto, Ontario. I am cool like that.
by Adnan on Nov 15, 2011 6:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Maybe I’m more Cory Clouston than Paul MacLean.
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by Peter Raaymakers on Nov 15, 2011 10:44 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, and I basically agree with this.
Play the best player you have for a role right now today – for the most part. It doesn’t mean I’d sacrifice a prospect’s development in favour of a random 36-year old or anything.
But, if you’re not the best player for a particular role, and you’re upset that you’re not seeing the ice, the solution isn’t to bitch about it – it’s to get better than the guy ahead of you.
Exactly my sentiments
What would it accomplish to bring in Stajan or Brassard… both of whom are overpaid, overrated and underperforming? All we’d accomplish is to put a bandaid on something that isn’t bleeding, and prevent regin and Da Costa from developing by using up their ice time.
We are in development mode, so let’s not expect instant development from everyone. We’re doing fine… perhaps even Butler will end up in that 2nd line center slot. The initiation goes on, so let’s not screw it up by giving away developing players for underperforming overpaid ones.
$3.2 M per should not have upsides
given that kind of $ for this year and next, Brassard should be a proven 2nd line center, not someone with “a strong upside..” with 4 points and -11 to boot after 15 games. I suggest as a project, one ex Blue Jacket reject at a time.
It's not like it's your money
And, although there’s plenty of uncertainty in light of upcoming CBA negotiations, I’d be surprised if the Senators spent to the cap over the next three seasons, so it’s not really an issue in terms of real or cap dollars (unless, of course, Eugene Melnyk makes it an issue).
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by Peter Raaymakers on Nov 15, 2011 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
I hate when people say that.
Of course its not his (her?) money. But anyone with an investment in the team, emotional or otherwise, should be concerned with how money is spent. Melnyk is probably keeping operating costs low, so a 3.2 million dollar contract might be the difference between putting some other piece of the puzzle in place or not. If Brassard is just a project, 3.2M is a big hit.
You might as well say, “It’s not like YOU’d win the Cup.” Kinda takes the fun out of analysis and fandom.
by RogerTheShrubber on Nov 15, 2011 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not sure I agree with this
I can see what you’re saying, but the concern people have with contracts makes me wonder sometimes. For instance, this season, does it really matter whether Sergei Gonchar is making $5.5M or $1.5M? The team went into the season without the intention of spending to the cap, so I don’t think it affects my investment into the team in any way whatsoever.
For a truly competitive team, money has to come into the picture, because you’re looking at finding space for as many contributing pieces as you can. But for the time being, the Senators are just throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks.
I’d say the Cup is a different example. We’re invested a lot more in the results the team gets than we are in the money spent to get there, aren’t we?
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by Peter Raaymakers on Nov 15, 2011 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
Peter, I think you are missing the point
which is your “its not like it’s your money” comment which is very condescending.
by whatsinaname on Nov 15, 2011 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
This.
Though I’m sure any condenscension on your part was accidental, and I was admittedly trolling a bit.
I think whatsinaname may have put it better below anyways.
by RogerTheShrubber on Nov 15, 2011 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
I apologize that it sounded condescending.
I certainly didn’t intend for it to be.
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by Peter Raaymakers on Nov 15, 2011 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry.
I take exception to that type of statement as a general rule, but I didn’t actually think you were being condescending.
by RogerTheShrubber on Nov 15, 2011 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
Having read your posts for the last few months
I know you are not that kind of person, so I agree with Roger. I shouldn’t have jumped to that conclusion.
by whatsinaname on Nov 15, 2011 7:37 PM EST up reply actions
Hahaha, its so true
that it’s not my money. But that’s what we do, you and I, pontificating about “our” team when it’s really Melynk’s. What the players make is never about us but how Melnyk and his players will split the team’s revenues…and yet here we are talking about floor caps, top caps, who’s worth what. speculating about Melnyk’s team to the nth degree. That’s what make us fans, silly at times but fans that care, sometimes too much for our own good.
by whatsinaname on Nov 15, 2011 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
I feel like Brassard has potential
But that this might turn into a a Vermette style player, where he’s good and but is on the edge of the 2nd and 3rd lines. I’m intrigued, but don’t want to give up too much to land him. Similar to the Turris situation.
Brassard has potential, but he's also already a decent player
He had 47 points (17G, 30A) last season, which would have been SECOND on the Senators in scoring (third in goals, third in assists). It’s a steady increase from his 36P (9G, 27A) in 2009-10, and in his rookie season he had 25P (10G, 15A) in 31GP.
So far this season, he’s disappointing heavily. But I’d wager his career before this season is more indicative of his skill than the 15 games he’s played this season.
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by Peter Raaymakers on Nov 15, 2011 2:40 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, that's true.
I don’t mind having too many potential top six players, especially since we seem to collect bottom six potential.
I agree
I would be willing to give Brassard a shot, but I think the Senators would need some kind of “exit strategy” prepared for the day when they have too many second line centres. That won’t be a problem this season, but things could get complicated next season with as many as four candidates for that role and ZSmith firmly established on the third line.
I think my attitude is pretty close to most people around here in that my interest in Brassard is inversely proportional to how much it would cost to acquire him.
If you have to speak in euphemisms about something...
There’s no intro to this above, but did anyone notice during the many discussions on fighting on Saturday night that everyone talks about the players “policing themselves” in euphemisms?
Mark Howe was particularly noticeable on this point, saying things along the lines of, “that kinda stuff would have been ‘dealt with’ back then.”
If there’s anything that would sway me on the fighting debate beyond my general policy to take the opposite position of Cherry and Mike Milbury, it’s the fact that proponents of fighting often feel the need to avoid actually saying what they’re advocating for.
These guys know that if they said, “Milan Lucic should have someone punch him in the jaw and break it,” it would not be a popular statement (plus it would be borderline criminal). So instead, “let the players police themselves” and “deal with the problem”.
by RogerTheShrubber on Nov 15, 2011 2:33 PM EST reply actions
True
…additionally, it would be nice to see the NHL disciplinarians get their act together and err on the side of over-punishment. Then the fighting talk would fade into total irrelevance.
good point
If you’re going to ignore goalies getting run, there’s going to be some scrapping.
by RogerTheShrubber on Nov 15, 2011 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
I have a hockey game at 9 30
Timing literally could not be worse. It’s gonna be my first miss of the season…
Bingo plays at seven, though, so I’ll catch most of that.
Zenon Konopka wears women's shoes.
Is what a troll would say, hoping to see what inflammatory responses such a criticism would ignite on a board where said character has inspired passionate debate in recent times, and whose champion and greatest defendor rarely seems to read whole statements before reacting.
by RogerTheShrubber on Nov 15, 2011 4:36 PM EST reply actions
I think I'm missing something here
Is there some context to this comment? I know most of us don’t agree with gwplant’s opinions on Konopka, but I’d still like to see us be respectful of them. This appears to be a demonstrative example of trolling posted at random, but before I have to put on my moderator hat, can you let me know what I’m not getting from this?
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
I believe it is just a joke
I.e. me being too emotional, you saying jerk, etc. I don’t see this as trolling.
An Ottawa Senators supporter in Toronto, Ontario. I am cool like that.
by Adnan on Nov 15, 2011 6:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Oh and Karlsson being a forward.
An Ottawa Senators supporter in Toronto, Ontario. I am cool like that.
by Adnan on Nov 15, 2011 6:23 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I get that it's intended as a joke
I’m just not sure what prompted it. Seems really random.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
By all means wear the moderator hat
Is undoubtedly deserved. I was trolling, as I said, but it was intended to be good natured. The Konopka arguments have been more heated than the topic deserves, and deserve satirizing.
by RogerTheShrubber on Nov 15, 2011 8:52 PM EST up reply actions
“The Konopka arguments have been more heated than the topic deserves, and deserve satirizing.”
Funny I thought this was a discussion board….discussing both positives and negatives, supporter and detractors and so on… I don’t see the point in “satirizing”…just because someone has an alternate opinion doesn’t mean it should be construed as “personal” or “heated”
The arguments have been heated.
Which seems absurd.
But I apologize if I insulted. As I say below, I was deliberately kidding because I think the zenon Konopka thing is getting excessive. I just think we can move on to other arguments.
by RogerTheShrubber on Nov 15, 2011 9:04 PM EST up reply actions
Let's not antagonize those we disagree with
He has a differing opinion of Konopka, and he has the right to voice it without being mocked. Respect is the primary rule here at S7S, so trolling—even in good fun—is probably not the kind of thing you want to post.
Hopefully that’s all I’ll have to say about it.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
Consider me reprimanded.
The point I was making was that any mention of a certain player on these boards is being overreacted to, and there is a danger of a chill effect on any conversation related to that player. I do think that that some of those conversations were farcical and deserving of satire.
Nonetheless, I may have been a tad too dickish in making my point, and I hear what you’re saying, so I’ve apologized and will behave myself in the future.
by RogerTheShrubber on Nov 15, 2011 9:59 PM EST up reply actions
Was this comment somehow directed towards me?? If so I don’t get it but it somehow seems off topic by the title and no apparent response to anything I have posted…
Yes.
But only because I get the impression that sometimes you go looking for anyone criticizing Konopka, so I thought I’d pull your leg a little. I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on some of the other topics that get discussed on here.
I’d happily let you on to the nick foligno bandwagon if you want to join me.
by RogerTheShrubber on Nov 15, 2011 8:58 PM EST up reply actions
Garrioch Trade Rumours
More accurate trade rumours are found in fortune cookies than in Bruce Garrioch’s column. I saw an interview with Matt Barnaby talking about a Garrioch rumour on deadline day saying something along the lines of “if you listen to him, I was traded to Ottawa every year.”
Misleading headline
For second I’d thought we’d been able to trade Garrioch.
by RogerTheShrubber on Nov 15, 2011 5:32 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
If anyone’s willing to offer a bag of pucks, take the deal and run.
by spez_dispenser on Nov 15, 2011 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
Everybody has potential
I’d much sooner figure out ways to get more draft picks, than to start giving away prospects for someone who is overpaid and not performing so he’s a problem for some other team, which is what Stajan and Brassard are. These prospects of ours have “potential” as well. Everybody has potential.
Let’s solve our own problems by developing our own players, not be in the business of solving other team’s problems. Notice how nobody wants to do us any favours and take our problems away and give us great stuff in return.
Once we are ready to contend, then we can go shopping for whatever is perceived to be missing.
BM should shut up that he is shopping around so he doesn’t stir up any storms around here.
I agree in general, but I think you have to distinguish between Stajan and Brassard. Stajan has no more potential left to tap and is paid based on his exaggerated reputation (thank you Toronto media). Brassard is a guy who has been trending upwards for the last few years, isn’t that old and may just be in a bad situation right now. For the right price (Lee maybe), I would consider gambling on Brassard, but as far as Stajan goes well forget it.
Patience will give us our 2nd line center
Brassard would just end up being yet ANOTHER candidate on the already-crowded list for the 3rd line center. Also he’d end up being the highest paid 3rd liner around.
Thank you very much, I like the Zackster as our 3rd line center now that we have or PK ability back.
We need patience, and we need to keep thinking REBUILDING.
There are reasons why teams want to dump players who appear to have potential. Taking on a project like Filatov is one thing because it didn’t cost much, but Brassard is high risk and high salary for another 3rd line center.
With patience, we will end up with a solid 2nd line center and a solid backup by next year… be it Regin, Z’jad, Butler, or someone who will surprise like the Zackster, or our first round draft choice this year. I’d sooner bank on that than Brassard.

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