Senators ups and downs: Week Six
by Mark Parisi on Nov 14, 2011 7:01 AM EST
in Ottawa Senators ups and downs
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Ups and downs is a feature that looks at the individual performances of the Senators for the past week.
It was an interesting week for the Ottawa Senators, as they went 1-2-0, with losses to the New York Rangers and Buffalo Sabres before putting together a quality win over the Toronto Maple Leafs, 5-2. Captain Daniel Alfredsson also returned from an injury in a very short amount of time, something that has become a trademark for him. When he retires, the team should start collecting his blood and transfusing it into their players.
Regardless of the Senators' vampiric future plans, the output fans saw this week was more in line for what we were expecting from the team throughout this season: great work ethic, some mind-numbing mistakes, and the occasional complete game where everything goes right. As all of the team's young players gain experience, we should see more and more of the latter.
Biggest Gains: Nick Foligno
We wrote last week that Foligno's intensity and physicality were undeniable, and the statement held true for this week as well. That's what consistency means to us, and thanks to Foligno's efforts, there's no denying he was Ottawa's best player this week. He laid a blistering eight hits on Toronto and recorded two goals in that game, sparking the win. With three goals in three games for the week, he's now tied for second on the team with Jason Spezza. When that's the company you're keeping, you're doing all right.
Biggest Losses: Zenon Konopka
What exactly does Konopka bring to the team? We're not sure he showcased anything this week: he went 2-for-5 on faceoffs (note: he actually went 4-for-6 on faceoffs, which definitely counts as showcasing something), had one shot on goal, one penalty, three hits, and two fights, one of which game just three minutes into the game. That Konopka doesn't get many minutes is not his fault, but he simply must do something with them. If his contribution is merely going to be a meaningless fight, it's a contribution the Senators could do without unless he can find a better opponent to take to the box with him.
(read on for the full breakdown....)
Goalies
Trend
Notes
Craig Anderson
Let in two goals on six shots against Buffalo, costing the team any real chance at victory, but bounced back with a strong, strong performance against Toronto.
Alex Auld
Auld saw action thanks to Anderson's atrocious start against Buffalo, but didn't do his team any favors, as the final score was 5-1 in favor of the Sabres.
Defensemen
Jared Cowen
He is the most boring player to write about. Gets his hits and shuts down his assignments. He's going to be a stud for the team for a long, long time. Also had a fight against the Rangers, which showed that he shouldn't be fighting.
Sergei Gonchar
Boom. Goals in back-to-back games against Buffalo and Toronto. He can rifle the puck when he gets the chance.
Erik Karlsson
Karlsson is on a three-game assist streak, the last one an absolute beauty to send Nick Foligno on a breakaway against Toronto.
Filip Kuba
Kuba did not have a good week, given that most if the goals scored against the Senators were the result of not clearing the crease--something that is not one of his strengths.
Brian Lee
Lee got in a game against Toronto and didn't look out of place. Solid but unspectacular. Ladies and gentlemen... Brian Lee.
Chris Phillps
Remains a much better player with a reduction in minutes and not playing against top lines. Dinged for some unpleasantly stupid penalties against Toronto.
David Rundblad
He was shaky in his return, making a painful turnover that directly led to a goal, but rebounded with a stronger performance against Buffalo. So, of course he sat out the next game.
Matt Carkner
Currently injured.
Forwards
Daniel Alfredsson
Alfie's return was quick, and it's a good sign that Foligno has emerged in his absence. The team needs a second line that can score.
Bobby Butler
Butler got some time on the first line against Toronto, but has been playing mostly fourth line minutes. That's not a recipe for success.
Erik Condra
Demoted through no fault of his own. He's just getting outplayed by Daugavins.
Stephane Da Costa
Like most of the team's rookies, consistency is his biggest issue. Played a strong game against New York, but was mostly invisible against Toronto. Unfortunately does not have the luxury of developing away from scrutiny, but we're not going to fault him too much for that.
Kaspars Daugavins
His intensity level earned him a promotion to the third line, where he plays with Z.Smith, who has as polar opposite of an attitude as possible. We smell a buddy cop TV show: "Z. Smith and the Rooster"!
Nick Foligno
See "Biggest gains."
Colin Greening
After putting up four goals and four assists in October, Greening has no points in November.
Zenon Konopka
See "Biggest losses."
Milan Michalek
Two goals in three games. You know you're hot when you don't have to touch the puck to get awarded a goal.
Chris Neil
Sidelined by an ankle injury. The team misses him.
Peter Regin
Out indefinitely with a shoulder injury.
Zack Smith
A two-point (1G, 1A) against Toronto made us consider him as the biggest gainer, but for Foligno. It's worth noting that Z. Smith leads the team in plus/minus. He is emerging as a good third line center.
Jason Spezza
Picked up two assists in the losses, and went pointless in the win against Toronto. We're okay with this.
Jesse Winchester
We suspect the team's recent improvement in PK has something to do with Winchester's play. He is a quintessential "little things" player.
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Comments
I think you're starting to run alongside the Foligno bandwagon.
Great assessment all around, by the way. I even begrudgingly agree with the neg on Greening, who I think has continued to play well but just hasn’t seen the numbers to reflect it.
by RogerTheShrubber on Nov 14, 2011 9:52 AM EST reply actions
Yeah, I want to believe
But I still think he’s going to disappear on us. I’ll probably need a full year of consistent play before I’m willing to believe he’s taken the next step in his development—he’s burned me too many times before.
Still, I’m not going to let my skepticism blind me to his actual performance this week. Guy was a beast.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
by Mark Parisi on Nov 14, 2011 10:04 AM EST up reply actions
The Official Nick Foligno Fan Club thanks you
But still feels that fandom should be mostly unconditional.
Besides, the best seats on the bandwagon are only available at the early stops.
by RogerTheShrubber on Nov 14, 2011 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
Before I get 9 angry replies (you have some ardent defendors)...
I realize that I am being unfair to you by equating fandom with trust. I understand that your point is that you cheer for Foligno and wish him the best, but that you’re not sure whether we can trust in him yet. this obviously doesn’t make you a bad fan – I think it makes you a Senators fan (we do get burned a lot).
However, I do think we have a better chance of Foligno becoming the player we want him to be if we give him a bit more leeway. He works his ass off and does all the things the coaches ask of him. Going back to last week’s discussion, I think it’s wrong for us to want him to accept being a bottom-6 player if the jury is still out on him being a top-6er.
by RogerTheShrubber on Nov 14, 2011 10:37 AM EST up reply actions
And I think that's a fair argument
I believe he at least has the tools to be a top-6 kind of forward. I want him to play a top-6 kind of role—there’s no denying we need some grit mixed in with our skill. The question with him, as it is with so many young players, is, “Is he willing to do what it takes to get there?”
So far, it looks like he is. Whether that’s due to more maturity, a coaching change, or simply being lucky enough not to break his leg blocking a shot, it’s a nice thing to see.
Still, I don’t think we can ignore the past when we set our expectations for players. I don’t believe it’s the sole predictor of an outcome (players grow and change all the time—just look at Phillips) but we’d be remiss if we also pretended that Foligno hasn’t had this look before and wound up disappointing us.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
by Mark Parisi on Nov 14, 2011 10:47 AM EST up reply actions
I find a lot of this conversation reminds of similar ones I’ve heard about Mike Fisher earlier in his career. He always seemed to be a guy who had a little bit of something to his game, but never seemed to push up into that next level for the first few years. It was obvious he had the wheels and the skill, but never could put it all together. If Foligno turns into the player Fisher was I’d be pretty happy with that kind of progress. Just comparing the first 5 seasons of their careers they do seem pretty similar production-wise.
by modsuperstar on Nov 14, 2011 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
I'm still hoping he turns into this generation's Sidney Crosby
But I’d happily settle for him being a good second line player. Was Fisher that?
by RogerTheShrubber on Nov 14, 2011 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
That's still debated among Sens fans
But I’d say yes
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by Mark Parisi on Nov 14, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
Fisher was a good second line centre. People just figured they needed 60 points out of a second liner, which was always unrealistic.
by modsuperstar on Nov 14, 2011 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
That's a great way to put it
Also, you don’t want him on your actual hockey team if your goalie doesn’t pay attention to the play.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
Yeah that's the thing with Foligno
It’s all well and good to say we need to give him time and give him leeway if we want him to reach his potential, but the sticking point for me (and I suspect a lot of others) is that we have been doing that for a while now and we still aren’t getting there. It’s great to see him thriving right now, but in the back of my mind I can’t help but remember all those games he got at the beginning of last season playing in the top 6 and just not going anywhere with it. I certainly hope he can finally make it happen, but I think despite the good things we’ve been seeing, it remains to be seen whether he can make it happen consistently.
Oh Captain, my Captain!
I don't know about the "Wait until we see it happen consistently" thing
I feel like you can say that about anyone. Cheechoo was doing it consistently for a while (not here, of course). Players drop off, other players pick it up. As long as a guy works hard (and I don’t think that’s being debated about ol’ Nicky), I think you have to kinda live in the moment with players.
Also, why is no one saying anything about Michalek’s consistency? He’s riding a similar streak to the one we saw at the start of his first season in Ottawa, after which he tailed off and didn’t produce much for a long time (the injuries, I know). I think he’s awesome, and I’m not saying we should question Milan too. I just think the “wait until he does it consistently” position is an odd one to take in sports.
by RogerTheShrubber on Nov 14, 2011 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
Of course it's something that applies to anyone
But I think Foligno has consistently been given a lot of opportunities to develop into it and has consistently failed to do so. That’s where he differs from someone like Michalek, who seems to capitalize on those opportunities and then get injured.
I mean, didn’t Foligno spend like a month last season on the top line just struggling the whole time? The Foligno situation just seemed really “Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice….” up until recently, and while I’d love to be proven wrong I also completely understand why a lot of people are hesitant to jump on the bandwagon.
Oh Captain, my Captain!
Fair enough.
I understand, and to some extent I’m playing devil’s advocate.
I do think that the “I’ll be on the bandwagon when he scores number 31” position sounds a bit like the “I’m a Leafs fan, but I don’t watch them now because they’re shit. Maybe when they make the playoffs…” portion of their fanbase (careful, there are about 3 million people in THAT fanclub).
by RogerTheShrubber on Nov 14, 2011 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
Sure
And I’m not saying I’m staying off the bandwagon until he hits X points or X goals. I’m just withholding judgment until I see him play well for the better part of the season.
Oh Captain, my Captain!
True.
That was Monsieur Parisi.
I’m taking you all down to the Sens Store for Foligno jerseys when he scores his 31st though (but not paying, of course).
by RogerTheShrubber on Nov 14, 2011 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
Oh I suppose I should have gotten to the end of your comment before I replied, eh?
Oh Captain, my Captain!
Haha.
It does make me feel good about adding that bit.
Also, I consider it a point for the Nick Foligno Fan Club that you would consider his jersey to be a score. You’re halfway there!
by RogerTheShrubber on Nov 14, 2011 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
I never turn up my nose at a free Sens jersey
I might have to figure out how to fix it if it’s got Yasshole or Dany Douchebag on the back, but I will always accept a free Sens jersey.
Oh Captain, my Captain!
Good karma
I think we gave Nick some good karma talking anout his so much last week… and he heard us.
He tends to show up on the highlight reel every once in a while and then disappear.
Here’s hoping this is the real Foligno.
Oh me?
Just printing up these “Z Smith & The Rooster” mugs and t shirts.
How is anyone supposed to top Sterling Snakehouse?
by worsteverything on Nov 14, 2011 10:05 AM EST reply actions
We should probably make these and sell them...
Silver Seven | Twitter | Facebook | E-mail | eBay
by Peter Raaymakers on Nov 14, 2011 10:32 AM EST up reply actions
Rooster: “I like to score! I like to win!”
Z. Smith (in bat voice): “I told you already, I don’t give a crap.”
Co-manager, Silver Seven
Alright, I can't take it any more.
Can someone please explain why Zack Smith doesn’t give a crap? Other than his “I don’t give a crap” face.
by RogerTheShrubber on Nov 14, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
The meme has roots in his style of play
Last year I mused that he plays “like he doesn’t give a crap” — you know, he’ll go anywhere for a puck, hit anyone at any time, play whatever role you ask him to, fight anyone for any reason, etc.
From there it was obvious that he didn’t give a crap about anything.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
by Mark Parisi on Nov 14, 2011 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
Fun fact: I saw ZSmith at the Bingo game yesterday
I was going to say something, but then I figured he wouldn’t give a crap if I was a fan or not. Plus he looked mildly pissed off and like he had somewhere important to be.
Oh Captain, my Captain!
"OMG! You're Z. Smith!"
“Yeah? So?”
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
by Mark Parisi on Nov 14, 2011 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
"I'm a fan of yours!"
“That’s nice. I was kind of on my way somewhere though so bye.”
Oh Captain, my Captain!
Rec'd...
For this awesome, awesome line:
Regardless of the Senators’ vampiric future plans […]
by sensory_experience on Nov 14, 2011 10:08 AM EST reply actions
It is the sacred duty of every Sens fan to put in their 30 votes for Alfie, Spez, Michalek, Karlsson and Gonch.
I’ve put in 30 on my blackberry. Next up, 30 on my computer, my Ipod, my girlfriend’s laptop…
Scholar, Gentleman, Shameless Sens Homer with a Heart of Gold.
by Johnny_Spectacular on Nov 14, 2011 12:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Ha!
I put in my 30 ballots this morning but not all were for all 5 of the Sens since there are other NHLers I like who got a couple of votes from me. But Alfie got all 30.
But I don’t think it’s connected to your IP, I think it’s your NHL account – so unless your girlfriend has her own NHL account and will let you hijack it, voting on her computer won’t work.
Oh Captain, my Captain!
Foiled!
Looks like I’m asking my gf to get an NHL.com account – luckily she’s a Sens fan too.
Scholar, Gentleman, Shameless Sens Homer with a Heart of Gold.
by Johnny_Spectacular on Nov 14, 2011 3:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Project mayhem
The saad basement dwellers of Leafs Nation are at it again.
http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2011/11/14/2561027/nhl-all-star-voting-is-open#comments
That's their strategy? Voting Heatley in?
Whatever, as long as Alfie plays that’s fine.
Oh Captain, my Captain!
Like I said in the last game recap
Looks like I need to write articles that ridicule players for them to have good weeks to make me look like a hack.
Any ideas for this week?
Peter Regin
For being such a bandaid. I’m sure he would appreciate the health boost.
by RogerTheShrubber on Nov 14, 2011 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
Another good one
Because if he doesn’t pick it up soon we’re going to replace him with a robot butler like in Rocky IV.
by RogerTheShrubber on Nov 14, 2011 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
You should all be ashamed of yourselves
For no discussion of Rocky IV ensuing from this comment.
I was also hoping at least one person would ask if Robot Butler would be called Roby Butler.
by RogerTheShrubber on Nov 14, 2011 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
I think the joke's failure is in the "Butler" pun
You might get some traction when Darren checks in—he loves puns and Rocky IV.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
Another Konopka pile on....
Once again I disagree…when discussing the “role” Konopka brings to this team, consider this, having 2 fights this week, standing up for his captain in the press and playing a leadership role seem to me to be 3 more things than Bobby Butler, whom is on a 2 year $1M avg contract to score goals and be a top 6 player and has ZERO goals and avgs 5 more mins per game, accomplished this week. Saying Konopka brings LESS to the table than Bobby Butler at this point is just I feel a biased assessment. There is a reason Butler is playing on the 4th line….
further...
“That Konopka doesn’t get many minutes is not his fault, but he simply must do something with them”
Once again Konopka has 1 goal in his 6 mins per game and Butler has ZERO goals in his 11 mins per game….who exactly is not making the most of their minutes??
Also...
Blogger maybe you can expand on what this “dimension” entails…“Adds a dimension that Konopka doesn’t, strangely enough.Winch is hard to appreciate in the sense that you don’t know what you miss with him until you see him in a game”
K I don't know why you seem to take this so personally.
Because it really does sound like you’re livid about Mark criticizing Konopka, and the multiple replies to your own comment before anyone else can comment just makes it sound like you’re ranting rather than taking a bit of time to marshal your thoughts before you post your comment.
Maybe I’m misreading the situation, but seriously criticisms of Konopka’s game are not some sort of personal attack against you and anyone who likes him. Unless you are Zenon Konopka, in which case it’s still not an attack against you so much as against how you’ve been playing, so let’s all just hug it out.
Oh Captain, my Captain!
by AlfieGirl on Nov 14, 2011 12:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
“Maybe I’m misreading the situation”
You are…I disagree with each of the bloggers assessment of a player that has a specific role that is being filled vs a player whom is not filling a role and yet the latter was not singled out as “the biggest loss” as the former was in 2 of the last 3 weeks…it is called an opposing opinion not “livid”
Okay, I'm just saying that the tone of your comments came off as an attack rather than a disagreement
And posting 3 comments in close succession makes it sound way more emotional and ranty than like a reasoned argument about why the assessment is wrong.
Obv you’re entitled to disagree, but I don’t see anything in your comments that suggests that the reasoning is wrong. Are you saying that Konopka should just have gotten a down arrow instead of biggest loss? Because one interview with the media ultimately doesn’t have a lot of bearing on whether someone has improved or not over the course of the week, and since this isn’t fantasy hockey PIMs count for nothing whatsoever unless they represent a fight that changed the momentum of the game in our favour, which his certainly didn’t. Sure Konopka’s goal was nice (and to me unexpected), but he had no points this week so that certainly doesn’t earn him an up arrow. Should we give him one for winning 2 of 5 faceoffs then?
You’re welcome to disagree, but I don’t see any rational argument in your comments except that Butler sucks worse in your opinion. Which is an opinion you’re entitled to, but I’d still say that Butler is doing at least as much (as little?) with his fourth line minutes.
Oh Captain, my Captain!
This isn't fair.
Konopka’s mom comes on here and backs him up all the time, but I have to be the one to stand up for Nick Foligno? Where’s Ms. Foligno when I’m trying to get the bandwagon rolling?
by RogerTheShrubber on Nov 14, 2011 1:13 PM EST up reply actions
His mom passed away...
An Ottawa Senators supporter in Toronto, Ontario. I am cool like that.
by Adnan on Nov 14, 2011 1:18 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Foligno's mom
An Ottawa Senators supporter in Toronto, Ontario. I am cool like that.
by Adnan on Nov 14, 2011 1:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Well shit.
That joke went sour fast.
by RogerTheShrubber on Nov 14, 2011 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
Where's his wife to defend him?
Because yeah it was a big, public thing when his mom passed.
Oh Captain, my Captain!
Not in Toronto.
I’m not sure that last part was necessary, I clearly wasn’t trying to make light of his mother’s passing.
by RogerTheShrubber on Nov 14, 2011 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
Actually, I seem to remember it getting attention on NHL.com and throughout the league because of his dad and his brother also playing
But obv it’s not quite as hard to miss as “OMG Crosby is concussed but might play again ever maybe HOLY CRAP GUYS”
Oh Captain, my Captain!
It rings a bit of a bell...
But seriously, my fandom just doesn’t generally extend to knowing about the players’ personal lives.
And I think that’s fair.
by RogerTheShrubber on Nov 14, 2011 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
Don't worry about it
We know it was a joke, and understand you honestly didn’t know. I’d also forgotten about her passing.
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by Peter Raaymakers on Nov 14, 2011 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
Wow you sound really angry
I think the issue is just that a lot of fans didn’t really understand why Konopka was signed, and he hasn’t done anything to explain that decision to us since the season started. This is not a team that was lacking in dressing room leadership or in fighters (although I didn’t realize Carks would be out of the lineup this long, so I guess having Konopka is sort of nice for when we need a tougher lineup). But neither of his fights this week did anything to energize the team or to serve any other purpose, and you’ve got to admit that his one goal was kind of flukey and doesn’t exactly lead us to expect a 20 goal season from him.
As for Konopka’s comments following the Wolski hit, I actually said they made me respect him a bit more – but they also had me worried that the slightest play from Konopka was going to get him thrown out of the game. It’s a fine line between standing up for your teammate and giving the refs a reason to overreact next time you play.
I completely agree that Butler’s struggling and that there’s a reason he’s on the 4th line right now, but Butler showed a lot of potential at the end of last season whereas Konopka’s potential is pretty much what he’s done this season but usually with better faceoff numbers. I’m a supporter of fighting players, but Konopka’s fights just don’t seem to be timed all that well, don’t accomplish anything helpful, and I don’t see an upside to him outside of the fighting in contrast to guys like Neil and ZSmith who fight but who also play well enough to earn a lot more minutes.
Oh Captain, my Captain!
I find Konopka’s fights really don’t serve to do anything, at least any that I’ve seen. I find Neil usually has that knack of picking when is the right time to drop the gloves. I know sometimes they don’t have a choice, but it seems like Zenon doesn’t always seem to pick his spots very well.
by modsuperstar on Nov 14, 2011 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
You are quite right sometimes you don’t have a choice…check the video of the Thornton fight and see his reaction it was less than enthusiastic but like you said you don’t have a choice….Brown fight didn’t serve to do anything?? maybe maybe not but at then end of the day the team won.
You’re also not doing yourself any favours by replying to comments in the wrong spot. Take this how you will, but at this point I’m just offering suggestions on how to make your argument more effectively. You have a much better chance of convincing anyone else if you stop and organize your thoughts and post them in the right spot. This is accomplishing nothing, to be blunt.
Oh Captain, my Captain!
Because Murray loves "Good guys, character guys, good character guys."
There are three reasons Knucklepa was signed:
1)He’s a gritty, little talented guy and Murray LOVES those.
2)Signing him makes Don Brennan happy and it’s not like SunMedia is EVER criticial of Murray or the Senators in general, but it mollifies Brennnan.
3)Fills a perceived lack of toughness I guess.
I couldn’t stand the Konopka signing. We HAVE a MILLION Konopkas and Folignos already. We NEED more skill up front. Seriously, we have TWO guys with skill, Spezza and Michalek. Three if you count the perenially injured Porcelain Regin. And we add Konopka, re-sign Foligno, etc. etc. This team is really, really, really hard to watch at times.
It’s ok to have character and stuff, don’t get me wrong…but this isn’t a beer league. This isn’t the RA Center where you have a bunch of pluggers coming in and then having beers.
This is the NHL and in the “new” NHL you need SPEED, SKILL, SPEED, TOUGHNESS. This team seems to be tilting a little too much toward the toughness aspect and quite frankly…I’m gonna turn 41 next week and I’d like to see a Cup before I die in 30 years or so.
I don’t believe I will with the player selections Murray has made.
"According to the statistics, Bester outperformed his teammates in every league that he ever played in, and was easily the best goalie the Leafs had in the 1980s. Despite this, the Momesso goal was essentially the end of Bester's NHL career."
http://brodeurisafraud.blogspot.com/2009/10/underrated-allan-bester.html
by BesterThanYesterday on Nov 14, 2011 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
Leafs fan in Ottawa, Ottawa resident.
If that post comes off as really bi-polar, I’ve been living in Ottawa for 38 years and I consider mysef a LEafs fan but I’m also completely immersed in the SEnators so I call all the talk shows too.
It’s like suffering from Stocholm Syndrome, I hear about the Senators so much that I start thinking of them as “my team” even though when the Leafs come to town I wear my Blue and White jersey, but I don’t boo Alfie…and my best friends are all Sens fans.
I need help. :P
"According to the statistics, Bester outperformed his teammates in every league that he ever played in, and was easily the best goalie the Leafs had in the 1980s. Despite this, the Momesso goal was essentially the end of Bester's NHL career."
http://brodeurisafraud.blogspot.com/2009/10/underrated-allan-bester.html
by BesterThanYesterday on Nov 14, 2011 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
Sens fan in Toronto, Toronto resident
You are almost like me!
An Ottawa Senators supporter in Toronto, Ontario. I am cool like that.
We all had to make that transition once upon a time.
Fortunately for me, the habs were good enough to trade Patrick Roy, which freed me up in the mid 90’s.
Sounds like you’re just coming around later than sooner.
by RogerTheShrubber on Nov 14, 2011 5:56 PM EST up reply actions
But if this were an RA Centre league, the Sens would kick ass.
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by Peter Raaymakers on Nov 14, 2011 8:24 PM EST up reply actions
Attacking Butler does not change that Konopka made no contributions last week
Saying that he would have beaten up Wolski is a nice quote, but the fact is that Konopka didn’t have a chance to stand up for his captain on the ice (you know, where it counts) because he had been ejected from the game for a stupid play. If simply talking big is your idea of leadership, we disagree completely.
His fight against Avery was not standing up for his captain; Avery was not involved in the Alfredsson hit.
His fight against brown did not give his team any energy; they were outshot 8-4 and left the period down 1-0.
He was terrible on faceoffs for the week; an area that is supposed to be his strength. He was not physical. He was not an offensive difference-maker.
You can disagree if you like, but if your only defense of a player is to attack another player, you need to consider your own biases before accusing someone else of one.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
Had to attack Butler because you keep attacking Konopka as a comparable
You have continuously labeled Konopka as the “biggest losses” if I am not mistaken twice in the last 3 weeks, to me that shows biased considering the one week he scored what alot of people considered a nice snipe and yet that was not enough for you to NOT point him out at what can be construed as the “worst player” or otherwise entitled “biggest losses” for all intent and purposes. I merely brought up Butler as a comparable alternative to your labeling of Konopka to offset your blogging. Maybe Avery started the fight to show he wants to stay in the NHL and had nothing to do with the incident in question, one thing about Konopka is he is old school and will not turn down many people and early on in a game why would he not get it out of the way early?
Terrible on faceoffs?? 4 for 6 being terrible?
“Saying that he would have beaten up Wolski is a nice quote” this is a misquote…
“because he had been ejected from the game for a stupid play”
Again please read an educated opinion on the call…http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=379366
I know quite a few on here don’t like fighting in the game and that is your opinion good or bad but make no mistake it is part of the game and you have to have the players to fill this role, Neil picks and chooses his spots, Carkner is injured who else do you have left to fill a role that needs to be filled?? I would argue the 2 fights you listed did NOT hurt his team in any way, the fact that he did NOT want to fight Thornton and the fact that he has a total of 6 mins of minor penalties out of 66, hardly hurting his team.
I don’t know exactly what the problem some of you have with this player but he is coming as advertised and I guarantee if you had the ability to talk to each of the guys in the dressing room they would tell you they ALL love the guy and he leads there and with the young guys, something this team needs…
Regardless of what you think the locker room would say about Konopka, I don't see what he is contributing to the team
Butler’s play has nothing to do with Konopka’s contributions, and I go back to my original point: If all he is contributing are meaningless fights, then it’s something the team can do without.
And to clarify a few things:
1) I don’t have a problem with fighting in the NHL.
2) I don’t believe that Konopka deserved any punishment for the Anismov hit. That doesn’t change the reality that it was a stupid decision to hit him to begin with, or that he was ejected for it. What Kerry Fraser, Brendan Shanahan, or even Gary Bettman think about the hit after the game are completely irrelevant to the fact that Konopka was ejected from the game for it. The fact that the punishment does not fit the crime does not excuse the bad decision-making behind the crime.
3) I would agree that his two fights did not hurt the team. I don’t think I claimed that they did anywhere. But they also did not help his team. They were, in a word, meaningless. That’s not a contribution to the team.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
“Butler’s play has nothing to do with Konopka’s contributions, and I go back to my original point: If all he is contributing are meaningless fights, then it’s something the team can do without.”
And I go back to my original comparison you keep implying Konopka is only contributing meaningless fights but he has 1 more goal than Butler and you have yet to single out Butler as the “biggest loss”, IMO Konopka has done more with less i.e ice time and likely skill level compared to Butler, why is this individual not being held to a higher standard an singled out 2 of last 3 games as the worst Senator forward?
From reading this site there seems to be alot of individuals whom have formed opinions and find it very easy to pile on as the herd mentality is obviously on their side, but if any of you knows what goes on behind the scenes, which unless you have the proper credentials, you have no idea what intangibles he brings to a team…though it is just easier to focus on the perceived negatives I guess.
Konopka didn't score any goals this week
The article clearly states that it is a look at the individual performances for the past week.
I’m not implying that Konopka only contributed meaningless fights this week—I’m stating it outright. Your ridiculous accusations of “herd mentality” and focusing on “perceived negatives” have nothing to do with what Zenon Konopka did on the ice this week, and your repeated attempts to accuse me of bias do nothing to show that Konopka has made more of a contribution than what I described.
Outside of four faceoff wins, what specifically do you feel Konopka contributed to Ottawa in the three games they played last week that I have not addressed?
If you can’t answer that question, it’s time to move on to a different argument, because the one you’re making now holds absolutely no water. I’ve already objectively demonstrated that Bobby Butler made a bigger on-ice impact below.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
huh??
“you’ve got to admit that his one goal was kind of flukey”
Flukey goal?? top shelf from the top of the circle on a rush from center ice?? I disagree with your opinion…
“what he’s done this season but usually with better faceoff numbers”
57% on draws is bad???
As for all the assertions on the Anisimov hit being either a bad penalty or bad decision please read the article from someone qualified to make an opinion….
Did I mention the Anisimov hit *anywhere*? No. I was talking about concern that he'd take ridiculous, undeserved penalties against the Rangers because of his comments about retribution.
Luckily I turned out to be wrong, but after that penalty for the Anisimov hit I don’t think I was being Chicken Little when I was worried that the refs would overreact to anything Konopka did next time they played.
So he’s been okay at faceoffs this season. That doesn’t change his 2 for 5 this week, which is certainly not 56% and which obviously doesn’t earn him an up arrow. I was under the impression that we signed him because he was amazing at faceoffs, but 56% is not exactly a faceoff expert. Feel free to disagree, but I still don’t see how anything you’ve pointed to shows that he had a good week and didn’t deserve a down arrow.
Keep in mind that this is weekly ups and downs. Maybe if you disagree with the writers’ assessment of Konopka’s season, you should write a Fan Post defending him rather than dredging up the whole season to dispute their assessment of his play this past week.
Oh Captain, my Captain!
“I was under the impression that we signed him because he was amazing at faceoffs, but 56% is not exactly a faceoff expert.”
He was 57% last season which was 4th overall in the entire NHL playing 4th line minutes….
Top was 62%, not sure what metric you are using to qualify “faceoff expert”
As a total aside...
Does anyone else find it odd that 55% percent is a very good faceoff rating? I mean, you’d think that the “experts” would be hitting like 70-75%, not just slightly more than half.
I’ve always found that weird.
by RogerTheShrubber on Nov 14, 2011 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
I think it's really hard to win faceoffs
So you’d have to consider anything on the positive side of a coin flip as demonstrating skill.
That’s how I’ve always seen it.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
I see that.
But since it’s a 50/50 thing skill aside, you’d just think specialists would deviate more from 50%.
Or maybe not. I need to stop discussing statistics while B_T is on here before I embarass myself.
by RogerTheShrubber on Nov 14, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
Please see my latest reply above.
If you’re going to keep making these ranty-sounding comments and ignoring the fact that this whole post is just talking about last week, then I’m done reading your comments. As a lawyer, I have no problem with a good debate, but I’m not a fan of beating my head against a wall.
Oh Captain, my Captain!
Okay, I mostly agree about Konopka....and I really hesitate to throw fuel on the fire...
But he was 4 for 6 on face-offs this past week according to the game reports.
Oh man, you're totally right
I don’t know where my math was on that.
Thanks!
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
Proof of your anti-Konopka agenda emerges!
How do we trust you anymore? Next we’ll find out that Zack Smith does give a fuck and Carkner isn’t injured, he’s locked in your basement.
by RogerTheShrubber on Nov 14, 2011 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
And you call yourself an objective journalist.
YOU’RE ALMOST AS MUCH OF A LOOSE CANNON AS ADNAN!
Oh Captain, my Captain!
Didn’t we already establish that was you? ;)
I don’t see a badge on you!
An Ottawa Senators supporter in Toronto, Ontario. I am cool like that.
MENDOZAAAAAAAAAAA!
Anyone know why the bad guy in those situations is ALWAYS named Mendoza?
That's because you're in Toronto!
It’s funny, because as a government worker I do actually have a badge.
Oh Captain, my Captain!
But I work for the government too.
An Ottawa Senators supporter in Toronto, Ontario. I am cool like that.
Then you're definitely not an objective journalist.
Anyway my point was just that I do have a badge, but seeing as how you’re in another city obviously you can’t see it.
Oh Captain, my Captain!
Thanks for correcting the oversight…..so again how was he the worst Senator for the week?? I just don’t see it and he obviously because of his style and lack of mins is an easy target. Maybe just a tad more objectivity might be in order. Thanks.
I made it quite clear that his lack of minutes are not his fault
Objectively, his only contribution this week was to win about one faceoff a game.
Objectively, Bobby Butler had more shots on goal, more points, just one less hit, and 100% fewer interference penalties called against him.
You are welcome to defend Konopka’s case, but if your only argument is that I’m biased, I don’t see why I should respect that.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
Ha! Love it
note: he actually went 4-for-6 on faceoffs, which definitely counts as showcasing something
An Ottawa Senators supporter in Toronto, Ontario. I am cool like that.
So, these are some of the reasons for Konopka
to be in the lineup:
1) He has a better than 50% to win the odd faceoffs in the Sens’ zone.
2) He stage-fights the other teams’ tough guys.
3) He protects our young guys from being intimidated
Forgive me if I miss anything else but assuming that’s it, has he done his job? (2) to me is neutral and non productive because it’s fighting with little emotion. Neil’s fights can change the momentum of a game and therefore can be beneficial. Does ZK act as a deterrent to the other teams messing with our players or do we enough players (Carkner, Zmith, Neil) in that role already? He is what he is and I suspect BM is getting exactly what he is paying ZK for.
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