I miss John Muckler

by Geoff Cheek on Jan 20, 2011 7:00 AM EST in Opinion

Two posts so far and I'm sure that I'll be once again standing alone on an island! This is an opinion that I've held for a very long time and have often brought up in previous blogs over at our former home, anothersensblog (great to be here at Silver Seven!). From the moment John Muckler was allowed to walk away following a Stanley Cup run in 2007 and was replaced by the coach that he hired, I've been worried. I've been worried that we removed a guy that has multiple Stanley Cup rings ~~as an actual GM~~ (Ed. Note: Although Muckler has been a part of five Stanley Cup winners, none were while he was general manager) and replaced him with a guy that has had mild success as a coach and questionable success as a general manager. I'm going to say what I've told friends for the past four years - John Muckler built a winner and Bryan Murray destroyed it.

I had the fortune of working within the Ottawa Senators organization growing up in Kanata, including during the wonderful playoff run of 2002-03. I recall vividly a ‘hot stove' meeting with the entire staff including John Muckler, who was in his first season as GM. He said something that was so great to us that I'll always remember - he said that we are here to win the Stanley Cup and we're going to talk about the Stanley Cup, because if you can't talk about winning it, then you aren't ready. It was awesome and there was this huge cheer throughout the room. John Muckler brought swagger to a team that was sick and tired of being humiliated year after year for playoff flops.

Fans always look to the mistakes in Muckler's tenure - a poor trade return from Martin Havlat, the inability to get the right trade deadline pieces (Eugene hearts Gary Roberts), and of course his decision to keep Wade Redden over Zdeno Chara. In fact, there is even a recent Wayne Scanlan article that brings up another point - that Chara was intent on walking away ever since Muckler backstabbed Marian Hossa in his trade to Atlanta for Dany Heatley. While this obviously has merit based on the fact that Scanlan printed it, we have all accepted that Muckler had a chance to keep Chara but balked and spent the bank on Redden; Chara wanted to stay, Muckler chose the other guy.

The other major knock on John Muckler is that he stunk at the draft table. In fact, you can make an argument that he didn't care much for the draft at all, often trading away picks at the deadline to make a Stanley Cup run. It is so bad that the only praise people can find for Bryan Murray at this point is how he and his nephew, Tim Murray, have ‘restocked the cupboards'.

Let me share some basic facts about the guy that last won a playoff series in Ottawa. His handling of the Hossa deal wasn't wrong. He approached Hossa, Chara, and Redden and made it clear that he wanted all of them to buy into the program in Ottawa and sign matching $3.9M contracts. He knew that at that moment, none of them deserved more than Daniel Alfredsson and he asked them to take matching hometown discounts to keep the team together. Chara and Redden agreed, Hossa didn't and he had to spend a couple of season in Atlanta as a result (things did work out for him in the end, though, right?). He was able to cast aside Hossa's salary along with another whopper in Greg de Vries at $2.5M and brought us an up-and-coming Canadian superstar in Dany Heatley. Regardless of how we feel about Heatley now, the guy had instant chemistry with Jason Spezza and was a critical part of the 2007 Finals run. To this date, Muckler is the only guy in Ottawa that has found a linemate for Spezza.

Muckler also built what was our best defensive group that we've had in franchise history. People often forget that Tom Preissing, part of the Martin Havlat trade, ranked in the top three in plus/minus in his season in Ottawa. Along with Preissing, Muckler brought in Joe Corvo, who was a solid offensive player for us beyond his happy feet and his desire to play in anonymity. Those two formed the third pairing in Ottawa. Today, under the Murray regime, our third pairing is a rotation that includes Chris Campoli, Matt Carkner, and Brian Lee.

How about taking chances? People often see Patrick Lalime as the best goalie we had, but lest we forget that Muckler went for broke and brought back Dominik Hasek. Prior to that ridiculous injury he suffered in the Olympics, Hasek played lights-out hockey for us for two-thirds of the season and put us in a phenomenal post-season position. I know that Hasek is a total basketcase and basically quit on us, but he is one of the best goalies of our generation and it was Muckler that convinced him to come to Ottawa. Under the Murray regime, we signed and bought out Ray Emery and are now spending $3.8M a year on Pascal Leclaire to sit in the infirmary.

Can he get value for problem players? Remember Alexei Kaigorodov? Muckler dealt him to Phoenix for Mike Comrie (the first time), who was a terrific second-line centre for us during the Cup run. In fact, Comrie's arrival in Ottawa was the first time that we were able to roll three strong lines throughout the playoffs.

How about coaching hires? Muckler made the difficult move of firing the once-popular Jacques Martin, who had taken us from joke to contender. He turned to a man that had coaching success and the move panned out as Murray was behind the bench in the Finals. Since then, we've had one assistant coach fired, one junior coach fired, and we're about to see an AHL coach get fired (or at least let go in the summer).

The belief that Bryan Murray has spent the past three years repairing the farm system from Muckler's follies drives me nuts. I can't argue that Muckler took care of the farm in Binghamton--he neglected it and let it fall apart. But I'm growing a bit tired of everyone saying that Murray has fixed this system. To this point, only Erik Karlsson has shown to be true NHL talent. David Rundblad is overseas, Jared Cowen is not ready, Patrick Wiercioch is definitely not ready, yet we continue to sing the praises of Murray as the guy that fixed Muckler's Bingo mess. First off, I don't even agree that Binghamton is back on track. Second, I don't know that I even care! John Muckler focused on the big team and won when and where it matters. Bryan Murray has flopped with the big team and it remains to be seen if his focus on the farm is even working. Why should I care about the minor league system, filled with Corey Locke and Jim O'Brien (a Muckler pick, I realize), when the big team can't beat the Calgary Flames?

Here's my long, drawn out point--our GMs have a long to-do list that includes putting bums in seats, managing a salary cap, building a farm system, scouting around the league for free agent pieces, et cetera. As far as I'm concerned, John Muckler succeeded in most of his tasks--we enjoyed amazing success on the ice and the building was packed. He filled the lineup with the best talent the franchise has ever seen and he is the only manager that built a team that competed for the Stanley Cup. His tenure came with mistakes and I've called them all out above, but he was a winner. Since he left, our team has been saddled in a downward spiral that nobody can seem to stop.

Three coaches later and gearing up for yet another season of early golf, can you really tell me that Bryan Murray is a better GM than John Muckler? Can you tell me that you're happier now with restocked cupboards of unproven talent? Was it a total mistake to have a GM that went for it all, knowing that trades and free agency could put pieces together? And don't tell me that Murray is simply suffering from what he inherited from Muckler. The guy has had four years and the only contract that he inherited at this point is Chris Phillips. Muckler won six playoff series in four years. At the conclusion of this season when we miss out again, Murray will have won nothing in his four years. Can you argue that Muckler was a total failure? I miss him.

Poll

Given the state of the Ottawa Senators today, you see John Muckler's tenure in Ottawa as:

He was the best GM we've had - the results prove it.

34 votes

Now that I think about it, he wasn't as bad as I thought

51 votes

He had success, but most of his moves hurt us

98 votes

Massive failure. Today's struggles are his fault

47 votes

230 votes | Poll has closed

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Comments

Yes and No

Great bit! But I believe that putting excessive blame or praise on either of these guys is not the way to go. Muckler inherited a team with “stocked cupboards” after years of loosing and therefore great draft pics. That meant he could sacrifice current pics that he didn’t need, and prospects that wouldn’t help immediately to land great players via trade. He had resources, and because of these I think it must have been pretty apparent that it was time to “go for it”.

After a good stretch, the team faltered. This kind of falter is basically built in to a cap system. Murray inherited this club – very different from the one that Muckler had to work with.

I believe that Murray would have done similarly (but not exactly so) in Muckler’s period and that Muckler would likely be re-stocking the cupboard now. Sure they are different people, but each of these periods had different constraints when you look at the big picture.

Having said that, I do believe that the overall culture of and organization is vital and your comment on Muckler’s optimism is interesting. But I guess it would be easier to be optimistic then too, and I’m sure the team was thinking cup through and through the year Murray took over.

by timac on Jan 20, 2011 8:42 AM EST reply actions

Geoff Cheek

Dont ever post again, I just read the first paragraph and became sick…

by Ottawa in 7 on Jan 20, 2011 8:58 AM EST reply actions

read the rest and you'll see his argument

I am AWESOME! Are you?

by Manthong on Jan 20, 2011 9:08 AM EST up reply actions

Hey Cheeky

Don’t ever post again? Hmmm. Timac gave you some credit (Great bit!), which is more than most could manage after your creatively nostalgic take on Muckler’s legacy. Then you imply that his opinion sickens you? Well pass the gravol, chum…

I read your ‘argument’ for Muckler’s preeminence in the pantheon of Senators GMs. I particularly liked your comparison of the 3rd line defense pairings under Muckler vs Murray, wherein you reference Brian Lee as the best Murray can do. Of course, Murray wouldn’t have had to make that choice had Muckler not drafted Lee…instead of say, Anze Kopitar, Mark Staal, or pretty much any other player in the first 5 rounds of the draft. You dismiss Muckler’s pillaging of the farm system as though it were of no importance, but here we are, three years after his departure, with a less than middling team, hoping for a lottery pick just over halfway through the season. Had Muckler done even a half decent job on draft day in years past, the team would not be packing it in so soon. This is the fruit of Muckler’s sowing. Murray’s legacy will be more apparent in 2-4 years down the road. In the meantime, there’s little point in the comparison.

by iwood on Jan 20, 2011 10:00 AM EST up reply actions

I think you've got it backwards, iwood

Ottawa in 7 made the ‘Dont ever post again’ comment towards Geoff Cheek because he disagreed with his opinion and apparently because Cheek’s opinion is different than Ottawa in 7’s, that means he has forfeited the right to write here. Sorry if I fail to agree with him there.

This topic is bound to be divisive, but instead of getting personal, let’s stick to the actual events that happened, alright? No sense being petty.

Thanks.

An Ottawa Senators fan blogging at www.silversevensens.com

by Peter Raaymakers on Jan 20, 2011 10:12 AM EST up reply actions

Geoff

My apologies Geoff. I realized shortly after my rant that it was entirely misdirected. I am a colossal DICK, as Peter respectfully pointed out.

Cheers

by iwood on Jan 20, 2011 11:57 AM EST up reply actions

Don't be ridiculous

Disagree, but do so respectfully, and you’re fine. But don’t be a dick about it.

An Ottawa Senators fan blogging at www.silversevensens.com

by Peter Raaymakers on Jan 20, 2011 10:14 AM EST up reply actions

To be fair, Ottawa in 7 seems to be a New York Jets fan

They can’t help it. ;)

Trying to be Erik Karlsson's agent since October, 2010.

by Adnan on Jan 20, 2011 12:04 PM EST up reply actions

Best. Reply. Ever.

by AlfieGirl on Jan 20, 2011 12:48 PM EST up reply actions

This article is awesome.

I’m not so sure I miss Muckler, but this article sure makes me think about missing him.

by dudebun on Jan 20, 2011 9:16 AM EST reply actions

It's hard to say - it is a bit of bad luck

If we had managed to beat Anaheim and hadn’t been totally bullied out of the series, then I think everything Muckler did would have been worth it. Am I okay with 5 years of mediocrity if it comes after a Stanley Cup? Five years later, we probably would have forgotten the joy, but I am okay with what he did. You can’t keep thinking of the future forever, when you are that loaded (and let’s face it, we used to be really, really talented) then you have to make a move and go for broke.

The best Sens team ever was the 2005-2006 one in my opinion, Alfredsson, Spezza, Heatley, Havlat, Chara, Redden (good version), Hasek (for most of the season). And then to have Fisher and Vermette as the secondary….man I don’t know how we lost to Buffalo. I still think back and if we hadn’t repeatedly blown that 7-6 over time game…how different could that year have been? We would have easily beaten Carolina and Edmonton in my opinion…

Trying to be Erik Karlsson's agent since October, 2010.

by Adnan on Jan 20, 2011 9:29 AM EST reply actions

I loved this piece

I disagreed with it – but it is a great dissenting voice. Good job, Geoff.

But enough looking back. Now, how do we fix this sucker?

by Tom Camps on Jan 20, 2011 10:19 AM EST reply actions

This will be even harder to write

Where do we even start?

An Ottawa Senators fan blogging at www.silversevensens.com

by Peter Raaymakers on Jan 20, 2011 10:24 AM EST up reply actions

I don't know if I'd go so far as to say "love"

But I agree. It made me re-evaluate my opinion of both GMs. Even though that opinion hasn’t really changed, it’s nice to have your opinion challenged now and then to make sure it’s not emotional nonsense.

by AlfieGirl on Jan 20, 2011 12:46 PM EST up reply actions

This team is old

Muckler inherited a team in it’s prime. Every player was ready for an offensive push. The reason he fired Martin as far as I’m concerned was the fact that he only coached a defense first style. Look at Montreal, they got as far as they did last year by blocking a phenomenal number of shots and the emergence of Suban and Camerelli but in the end it was the offensively gifted Flyers that did them in.
Any decent general manager given the green light from ownership to do whatever it takes to build a contender could have done the same. Ottawa under current ownership is failing because their players have gotten old and no new ones are coming up to replace them. Murray is doing his best with middle of the road picks.
This team needs a high draft pick or two to find it’s way again and ownership needs to accept this reality or they will become a Leafs type franchise with bad trades and signings for the foreseeable future.
Signings such as Kovalev have really had a negative impact on the team and I have heard enough from former players and general managers of the effect that a highly paid underachieving player can have on a team as a whole. Note how much better they played against Anaheim. Let’s see if this trend continues. One thing I know is that injured players are kept away from the dressing room as they receive treatment.
Ray Emery was a good signing at the time, he had success until his private life led to his downfall and the signing of Leclair was a good gamble that many teams in the league make and sometimes regret.

by Hockey Playoff Run SensFan on Jan 20, 2011 10:23 AM EST reply actions

I agree with this.

by Los Blancos Chicca on Jan 20, 2011 10:37 AM EST up reply actions

Thank you for this post Geoff Cheek.

To be honest, I have been unfair to Muckler, as I forgot to look at some of the good things he did. But we are in this current state because of some decisions that he made. Like Adnan said, it’s hard to think about the future when you are loaded.

Both GMs made mistakes, the difference is Muckler had better opportunities to offset these mistakes because he COULD make decent trades. Murray isn’t in that position. His mistakes are sticking with us because we don’t have the ability or cap space to trade and get rid of the mistakes. (Did that make sense?)

The ONLY WAY our team can improve is if management is willing to accept that t the cup is not in our reach anytime soon, that we are starting a new legacy (maybe not the correct term) and that we need to detach ourselves from some players in order to move on. Once they recongnize this then Murray & Co. can move along and we can see what they really can do.

by Los Blancos Chicca on Jan 20, 2011 10:45 AM EST reply actions

I honestly think Melnyk has been worse for the team.

All that nonsense every year about how we’re one big trade deadline/summer signing away from a Cup has been worse than either GM, not to mention likely contributed to the failure to start a new legacy before now…

by AlfieGirl on Jan 20, 2011 12:47 PM EST up reply actions

That's exactly it...

And the management, organization, owner, whoever needs to get that out of their head(s) or else we won’t be getting any better.

by Los Blancos Chicca on Jan 20, 2011 2:16 PM EST up reply actions

Probably

Didn’t I read early this year tat Melnyk was the one who pushed for Kovalev?

by timac on Jan 20, 2011 5:19 PM EST up reply actions

Yes you did.

by Los Blancos Chicca on Jan 21, 2011 9:00 AM EST up reply actions

Tom Preissing was mistreated in the playoffs. He wanted out because Murray didn’t use him much which I still don’t understand why.

Chara over Redden will always haunt the Sens and has pushed the organization back a few years in progress to ‘that winning team’.

Everyone liked the Bondra acquisition, but just like every mid-season pick-up…we fail to keep those good players. Why oh why?

by AAZZ on Jan 20, 2011 10:57 AM EST reply actions

I don't know if Preissing was mistreated...

He may have felt he was mistreated, and he may have been used sparingly, but if his current whereabouts (the KHL, after being bought out by the Avalanche) is any indication, he got exactly as much ice time as he deserved.

An Ottawa Senators fan blogging at www.silversevensens.com

by Peter Raaymakers on Jan 20, 2011 11:09 AM EST up reply actions

Coaching

Muckler’s best move while he was here was hiring Murray to coach. So far he is the most effective coach we’ve had to date and nobody has gotten more out of the players than him. For me, things started going downhill not because he became GM but because he was no longer the coach. His problem has been that he has simply not been able to find a coach as good as he was. He has put quality players in our lineup year after year, they just havent performed and that has to fall on the poor coaching we’ve had which I guess is his fault for hiring the guys in the first place but my point is Melnyk should have left Murray as coach and looked for a new GM once Muckler was let go.

by jayssensraps on Jan 20, 2011 11:26 AM EST reply actions

Not sure but

Murray wanted out of coaching. It’s a tough job.

by Hockey Playoff Run SensFan on Jan 20, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions

Yeah I don't know...

I’d happily take a million dollars to travel around the continent watching hockey and preparing for hockey, while being around Daniel Alfredsson, Jason Spezza and Erik Karlsson (woo!).

Not to mention, being the coach, Karlsson would have to respect me (or at least pretend to do so). I would have Erik Karlsson’s respect!

Trying to be Erik Karlsson's agent since October, 2010.

by Adnan on Jan 20, 2011 11:54 AM EST up reply actions

Respect you authoritay !!!

by Hockey Playoff Run SensFan on Jan 20, 2011 12:19 PM EST up reply actions

Seriously?

My gut reaction on reading this headline was to wonder whether I should keep reading this blog as a source of Sens news and gossip.

That said, I read the article and reconsidered. I mean, one article doesn’t mean the entire blog has gone crazy. Also, the article does manage to rationally convey an argument in favour of Muckler.

That said, I’m going with the GM who drafted Getzlaf and Perry over they guy who drafted Lee and traded away most of our picks. Is BMur a perfect GM? Of course not. Dude loves to sign Europeans who are past their best before date. But I maintain that Muckler’s legacy is, in large part, the reason for the hole this team is in now.

Maybe the GM should play a role in getting people to buy tickets and all that other stuff listed in the article, but the role of the GM is first and foremost to develop the roster. You do that through signings and, more importantly, through the draft. Sure Cowen and Wiercoch may not be ready for the NHL right now. But who cares? They will be in a year or two, and with the way the season’s going it’s nice to have something to look forward to.

by AlfieGirl on Jan 20, 2011 12:44 PM EST reply actions

While I agree with most of what you're saying

Including Bryan Murray and his record with the farm system (I’d been saying the same about his draft ability), but Muckler’s failure to draft is the reason why Ottawa is in the position it’s in. Here’s an example from another sport, John Muckler is like Pat Gillick. When he was GM of my favorite team, the Seattle Mariners, they had the greatest season in baseball history (won 116 games), and since he left, the team hasn’t made the playoffs. While he was able to build a successful team, he did so at by selling out the farm system and milking it dry. Jon Muckler was able to win, but he won by using some of the best young talent in the NHL, talent that was drafted by Ottawa before him. Most of the talent on the 2006-07 Ottawa Senators was drafted by the Ottawa Senators, and was featured together on the lockout season Binghamton Seantors.

Mariners, Senators, Trail Blazers, Seahawks fan that also covers the Ottawa Senators prospects for Silver Seven. All from Sunrise, FL. And I do for you guys! Silver Seven

by Alexander Calloway on Jan 20, 2011 1:04 PM EST reply actions

Muckler was ok

Personally, I think Murray is a better GM than Muckler, but the guys who really deserve the credit for the Senators success are Pierre Gauthier, Rick Dudley and Marshall Johnston. Those are the guys that brought in all of the major pieces of the Senators cup winning team(except for Alfredsson who was drafted by Randy Sexton) and managed the Senators from being a total doormat to a contender. Muckler deserves some credit for getting the club to take the next step, but he also deserves some blame for eroding the clubs foundation through negligent junior scouting and poor drafting. Overall, Muckler was ok. He was a decent fit for the time period that he was in charge. If he had stayed in charge the Senators might have squeezed out a couple more seasons of semi-contention, but then (due to having no quality prospects) would have fallen into the abyss of New York Islanders level suckage.

by DW19 on Jan 20, 2011 2:24 PM EST reply actions

Muckler has ZERO Stanley Cups as a GM!

Geoff, in the first paragraphy you make the bold claim that Muckler has won multiple Stanley Cups as a GM. Unfortunately, that claim is totally untrue. He won multiple Stanley Cups with the Oilers as an assistant coach(84,85) as a co-coach(87,88) and as head coach(90). He was a GM with Buffalo in the early 90s(no cups) and with Ottawa. He also coached Buffalo(no cups) for a while and the Rangers(no cups). He has done many things over the course of a great career in hockey, but he has never GM’ed a team to a cup.

by DW19 on Jan 20, 2011 2:30 PM EST reply actions

Thanks for the note, DW19

I made that correction in the article.

An Ottawa Senators fan blogging at www.silversevensens.com

by Peter Raaymakers on Jan 20, 2011 3:39 PM EST up reply actions

Great post!

I think the perception is that Muckler had more to work with, having inherited a team with multiple high draft picks after years of mediocrity. The Sens were practically an all-star team some seasons, and he couldn’t take them over the top. Murray’s had less to work with, and a few crippling events, like the Heatley fiasco, haven’t helped. I’m not sure who’s the better GM – I think they’re both pretty terrible, to be honest with you, though each have their strengths – but you have to wonder if Murray could have done what Muckler couldn’t with an Alfie in his prime, Spezza, Hossa / Heatley, Chara, Redden, Phillips, Volchenkov, Havlat, Fisher, Vermette, Hasek and THE MIGHTY BRIAN SMOLINSKI.

by Varada on Jan 20, 2011 3:57 PM EST reply actions

How could we forget Smokes?

What a champ he was.

An Ottawa Senators fan blogging at www.silversevensens.com

by Peter Raaymakers on Jan 20, 2011 5:02 PM EST up reply actions

If only he hadn't triumphantly raised his arms on that 6-5 goal!

Trying to be Erik Karlsson's agent since October, 2010.

by Adnan on Jan 20, 2011 5:22 PM EST up reply actions

Ha, when I read the preview of this article, I knew there was going to be a spirited reaction

You make a good argument, but you leave out some important facts:

Muckler didn’t draft Havlat. Muckler didn’t draft Alfredsson. Muckler didn’t draft Spezza. It wasn’t Muckler who got Chara in the trade of Yashin. In fact, here are the first round picks from his tenure as GM:

Jakub Klepis
Patrick Eaves
Andrej Meszaros
Brian Lee
Nick Foligno
Jim O’Brien (Technically a Murray pick, but made with Muckler’s scouting staff and draft board)

His drafts are a wasteland. In six years, he only picked six players who have logged any NHL minutes, and the only one who WASN’T a first round choice is Brian Elliott. None are what you would call All-Stars, though Meszaros has shown the most potential.

Outside of Heatley and Comrie, the return on his trades has essentially been nil. We have more to show from Heatley’s trade than we do from trading Havlat and Smolinski. The only possible return from that trade (Patrick Weircioch) was chosen by Murray.

His downfall as GM was exactly his unwillingness to take chances. He was never going to make the big move to get us the missing piece. Giving up Brooks Laich and a 2nd round pick for an over-the-hill Peter Bondra (Seven playoff games with Ottawa, no points, but 6 PIMs) was the kind of move that has gotten Bryan Murray villified by his critics. The same is true of giving up a second for Oleg Saprykin (1G (a huge one), 1A in 15 playoff games with the Senators). He also traded Brandon Bochenski and a second round pick for Tyler Arnason, who fans will remember for being scratched throughout the playoffs. There’s a parallel to these moves in what people want Bryan Murray fired for.

His free agent signings don’t show a much better track record. He signed notorious coward and quitter Domink Hasek, who unsurprisingly quit on the team. He signed disaster goalie Martin Gerber. He signed turnover machine Joe Corvo, an obvious mis-fit in Murray’s system.

Considering that Muckler didn’t draft any of the core players for the Senators’ playoff years, didn’t sign any impact free agents during the Senators’ playoff years, and didn’t keep the team’s best free agents from walking, I don’t see how you could possibly argue that Muckler built the playoff Senators — he merely presided over them.

Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs

by Mark Parisi on Jan 20, 2011 4:03 PM EST reply actions 2 recs

and this is the crux of it

http://ottawasconsensus.blogspot.com/

by DaveYoung on Jan 21, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions

just as a counter to your anti-“filling the cupboards” remarks: with the exception of maybe Crosby and those extreme elite in the league, are there any players that you absolutely knew without a doubt was NHL-ready before? I don’t think so, everyone had to prove themselves.

Any draft can turn into a Crosby, and any draft pick can turn into a Daigle. And of course, there are a plethora of middle grounds.

So I don’t think it’s fair to say " Jared Cowen is not ready, Patrick Wiercioch is definitely not ready" and say “look see, Murray can’t do it either!” because, well, they aren’t supposed to be ready yet.

All that being said, I would still take Murray’s picks over Muckler’s.

Murray isn’t perfect, for reason’s that you talk about and are obvious, but it is silly to harp on his picks at this point….

by Ibanez_Guy on Jan 20, 2011 6:03 PM EST reply actions

G Cheek makes some interesting point

I like the one where Muckler injected much needed swagger to the team at the right time. But the year we went to the Finals, BM was the coach, worth noting. I would argue that both GM’s had their share of hits and misses in reconfiguring the team.( free agency, signings, etc..). So to me there pretty much equal in that respect. One area that does count just as much as the others elements is drafting. GM’s must be able to have at their disposal, a scouting team that is able to somewhat replenish the stock. In that department, BM has Mucks beat…by a long shot. To back up my point I will provide some stats that may be an indication of Mucks inability to draft well.

AMOUNT OF GOALS SCORED BY DRAFTED PLAYERS UNDER MUCKS VS GOALS SCORED BY DRAFTED PLAYERS ON OTHER TEAMS.

As of Jan 21 2011

Mucks drafts (2002 to 2007) Total goals = 172

MTL drafts = 485
BOS drafts = 458
BUF drafts = 518
TOR drafts = 355

PHI drafts = 516
NYR drafts = 319
NYI drafts = 267
PIT drafts = 802
WAS drafts = 665
CAR drafts = 354
TB drafts = 74
FLA drafts = 484
ATL drafts = 190
NJ drafts = 297
DAL drafts = 293
STL drafts = 273
CHI drafts = 565
COL drafts = 406
CLB drafts = 570
LAK drafts = 418
ANA drafts = 476
SJ drafts = 468
MINN drafts = 299
DET drafts = 364
VAN drafts = 247
CAL drafts = 244
EDM drafts = 335
PHX drafts = 290
NASH drafts = 315

LEAGUE AVE = 384

Ottawa during that period of drafting could only muster up 172 goals 29th out of 30 teams. TB is the only anomaly with a paltry 47 goals…imagine them with better drafting !

It’s way to early to judge BM’s draft picks. We will only know with time. But if his draft history is any indication, his numbers will be decent.

BM with Anaheim 2002,2003,2004 # of goals from his drafts = 419.

by paulbeam on Jan 21, 2011 4:44 PM EST reply actions