Just More Drivle From the Ottawa Sun?
by GelatinousMutantCoconut on May 29, 2010 1:37 AM EDT
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PrintProbably...but with most of the media and blog focus on the Flyers and Blackhawks, it's fun to have a bit of Senators speculation. Especially one that doesn't involve Anton Volchenkov.
Now, I want to note that I don't believe this for a second. The Ottawa Sun is hardly a good source.
Also, I don't support a Spezza trade. Jason is our best offensive player and has worked hard to improve his game. he also has an excellent attitude. He'll never be a true NHL Superstar: but he's a sure first-line centre. He seems to have finally found his post-Heatley game.
But...the thought is intriguing...I thought it would make an interesting debate. If this offer was on the table, and you were the Sens GM, would you do it? is there a counter-offer you would make?
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I'd be very tempted.
Brassard has not reached his full potential yet, but is basically a younger version of Spezza. The 4th over-all pick would give the Sens a chance to draft either another potential first-line player (Brett Connolly or Nino Neiderreiter) or another top defense prospect (Erik Gundranson or Brandon Gormley) .
I think that 2 for 1 nature of the deal would tilt the scales for me…
by GelatinousMutantCoconut on May 29, 2010 1:39 AM EDT reply actions
That deal licks ass.
Not even worth justification of my dismissal.
by Mike Hurley on May 29, 2010 3:52 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
The article is here. It’s literally nothing but speculation from Garrioch.
IF a deal like that was on the table, I would take it. I love Spezza, but Brassard, the 4th, and the 16th overall picks restock the team pretty damn quickly. Brassard also has a very manageable cap hit, which would let the team keep a player like Cullen and possibly Sutton. With the cap projected to raise by as much as two million next year and Kovalev and Leclaire coming off the books at the end of that year, the Sens could have as much as $15M to spend on free agents. A trade like that could turn the team into a serious Cup contender in as little as two years. I don’t think there’s much to debate when you consider that.
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I just read the article
As I suspected, and as you said, it’s just more Garrioch garbage.
But we can always hope right :P
It’s a great example though of how the media tries to turn fans against players. And unfortunately in Ottawa it’s worked. Wade Redden was a keystone for the franchise and a pillar in the community, and he was vilified and slandered. Emery, while immature, was portrayed as a basket case. It’s a real shame.
by GelatinousMutantCoconut on May 29, 2010 5:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Emery was scapegoated.
I’m disappointed we didn’t try to develop him into a true #1 goalie, but I’m equally disappointed that he didn’t seem willing to do the work to rehab his injury.
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I overlooked that we'd still have the 16th overall...
Too bad Garrioch is always so full of shit..
by GelatinousMutantCoconut on May 29, 2010 5:06 AM EDT reply actions
I’m not trading Spezza to Columbus for anyone not named “Nash”.
Shawn McEachern: The best Senator to ever wear 15.
by Speedy_McEachern on May 29, 2010 10:49 AM EDT reply actions
I don't know if 4th overall is that great
Using our ‘best player available’ tactic, the Sens would almost certainly pick a defenceman—I think a D man is ranked 3, 4, and 5. Unless we get one of the top two picks, I don’t know why we’d dump our top centreman.
by Peter Raaymakers on May 29, 2010 11:08 AM EDT reply actions
I think Bryan said he would like a forward
But if a top forward wasn’t available he was draft the best available.
by Alexander Calloway on May 29, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
From many of the mock drafts I’ve seen that would probably be Cam Fowler.
by modsuperstar on May 29, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm pretty sure Cam Fowler is ranked #3.
Someone like Brett Connolly would be there at #4. We sadly won’t be able to get our hands on Granlund but there’s a chance Kirill Kabanov falls to us at #16. You wouldn’t trade Spezza for an entire like of skilled forwards: Kabanov-Brassard-Connolly?
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I was reading this yesterday http://thepuckdoctors.com/2009/08/2010-nhl-mock-draft-database/ and lots of the drafts had him somewhere between 2-4.
by modsuperstar on May 29, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
It's true, I'm fudging the numbers there a little to make my point.
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by Mark Parisi on May 29, 2010 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Connolly is still a wildcard though. He’s basically this year’s Jared Cowen.
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The only way I see this deal getting done is the Sens want to rebuild
And since they want to be a playoff contender (not a Stanley Cup contender mind you) they won’t take it.
by Alexander Calloway on May 29, 2010 12:20 PM EDT reply actions
Really, the only way this deal gets done is if Howson is megadrunk
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That or he knows that Bryan Murray doesn't win trades
by Alexander Calloway on May 29, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
We'll have to agree to disagree but I don't see how San Jose won that trade
What do they have to show for it? They got rid of Cheechoo’s contract — that’s the only tangible victory.
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Heatley had an 80+ point season. Michalek had approximately three assists and Cheechoo was sent to the AHL.
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That plus the 2nd round pick was traded away
All the Sens got was Michalek out of that deal. The Sens got burned badly.
by Alexander Calloway on May 29, 2010 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions
You make it sound like Murray had other options
It’s not a burn if your hands are tied. He made the best deal he could under the circumstances.
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by Mark Parisi on May 29, 2010 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions
You heard of Alexei Yashin?
You know, the Captain before Alfie who sat out a whole year because of a contract, played for the Sens (dispute being a “locker room cancer”) for a full season, had a good year then got traded in a deal that gave Ottawa a first round pick (Jason Spezza), Zdeno Chára, and Bill Muckalt.
by Alexander Calloway on May 29, 2010 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Yashin didn't have a no-trade clause that allowed him to pick the team he was traded to
The circumstances aren’t even remotely close. Heatley picked his destination and San Jose knew it. Murray was literally forced to take what the Sharks offered. If he had a choice, the Edmonton deal would have gone through.
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by Mark Parisi on May 30, 2010 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Murray didn't have to trade him
Just because he demanded the trade didn’t mean Murray had to do it. So what if Heatley bitched and moaned, whats the worse that would happen? Heatley sits out the season?
by Alexander Calloway on May 30, 2010 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't know what the worst that would happen is.
Fresh off seeing the Emery drama, maybe Murray didn’t feel his team could handle a year of it with Heatley. The Ottawa media certainly wouldn’t have helped the situation any, and it was Clouston’s first year on the job.
If Heatley sits out the season, you subtract his 40 or so goals and get nothing in return. Ottawa was already minus thirteen in the goal differential at the end of the year. We wouldn’t have Michalek or Cheechoo so that would push the goal differential to minus 40. That’s a pretty scary thought.
I don’t think Murray had much of a choice once the Heatley trade demand became public. It sucks to lose a point-producing player like that, but the difference in the locker room between two seasons ago and this season was clearly evident. I think that team game helped Ottawa win more than a few games they would have otherwise lost.
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The Sens team game was helped by a bad coference
Even if Murray didn’t pull the trigger on San Jose, he would have made a bad deal for Heatley for another team.
by Alexander Calloway on May 30, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Right, because every GM in the league knew he had no negotiating leverage thanks to Heatley's no-trade clause.
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No because Murray sucks at trading
by Alexander Calloway on May 30, 2010 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I think we got burned...
but it could have been a lot worse. And we still did alright without Heatley. The Sharks wanted Heatley to actually do something in the playoffs. Congrats to them as his two playoff goals meant that the Sharks paid Dany Heatley $3.75M per postseason goal. Fuck the Sharks, I wish Michalek would have played in the playoffs because I bet he would do a lot more than Mr.Heatley in the playoffs.
Statistically, of course the Sharks got the better player
But that’s not all that goes into the deal. San Jose viewed Heatley as the piece of the puzzle to get them a Stanley Cup. He did not. In fact, he underperformed and now they’re looking at significant free agent losses. When you trade for someone with the express intent of winning a Cup and don’t win a Cup, that’s not a win. Not in my eyes.
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by Mark Parisi on May 29, 2010 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions
It's only been one year
Get one of the NHL’s tops forwards, and all you lose is a second liner, and make it to the Conference Finals for the fist time since the lockout, kinda hard to see a lose in that. That plus Heatley did better than Milan Michalek and Jonathan Cheechoo in the playoffs.
by Alexander Calloway on May 29, 2010 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure, Heatley did statistically better than an injured guy and an AHL player
No arguments there. But San Jose’s goal wasn’t to make the Conference Finals, it was expressly stated that Heatley was brought in to help them win a Cup.
The argument that all they lost was a second liner is utterly myopic. Heatley’s salary means they can’t afford to keep Patrick Marleau, Evgeni Nabokov and Rob Blake and sign their RFAs like Pavelski and Setoguchi. There’s impact beyond the bodies traded because the league has a salary cap.
“Top forward” is also giving Heatley too much credit. Sure, he scores goals, but he had only two in the entire postseason. That’s not top performance.
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by Mark Parisi on May 30, 2010 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah but they have another 5 years of him
And I don’t follow the Sharks, so I don’t know what their plans are with Patrick Marleau, Evgeni Nabokov and Rob Blake.
by Alexander Calloway on May 30, 2010 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions
You also have to factor in that Ehrhoff trade into the Heatley deal too. The part that baffles me is that Ottawa couldn’t make an Ehrhoff, Michalek and Cheechoo deal work? Ottawa would have taken on 2 – 2.5 mil more then Heatley’s deal. I know the Sharks essentially out waited the Sens to get the deal done given no other offers. It’s like the real winner from the Sens/Sharks trade was Vancouver.
by modsuperstar on May 30, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
The Ehrhoff thing is real mystery
The only thing I can think is that Murray knew he was taking dead salary with Cheechoo and didn’t want to take more? The cap makes things so complicated that they become hard to evaluate. Considering Cheechoo and Kovalev both come off the books after this year, maybe Murray was trying to position himself to make a splash as soon as he could? I really don’t know, but he must have some kind of plan.
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I don't think there's any doubt San Jose won the trade
The Senators won in a way, too. Ottawa got rid of a one-dimensional player and received a cheaper, more well-rounded one and cap space moving forward.
It’s basically Michalek for Heatley.
by Peter Raaymakers on May 29, 2010 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions
You guys defending Murray for that trade forget that the original offer was Michalek and Ehrhoff plus a pick.
Murray refused. Ehrhoff was traded for nothing.
For a player of Heatley’s caliber, it should have been Michalek, Ehrhoff and a first.
Instead of Cheechoo, the Sens could have had a another solid top 4 puck mover.
by GelatinousMutantCoconut on May 30, 2010 10:13 AM EDT reply actions
For a player of Heatley's caliber, it should have been Michalek, Pavelski and a 2nd
But shoulda, choulda, woulda… Murray was over a barrel and every other GM knew it. Erhoff’s cap hit is bigger than Cheechoo’s. I wonder if that had anything to do with it or if Murray was just looking to get back an equal amount of goals in the return?
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Actually Ehrhoff makes $400,000 less then Cheech. The big problem was that Murray got beat in a game of chicken. He thought he could wait it out and get a better offer, only to find himself with his back against the wall and Heatley and his circus about to report to training camp.
by modsuperstar on May 30, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you sure?
Ehrhoff’s cap hit looks like $3.1M to me and Cheechoo’s is $2.098.
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Ehrhoff is 3.15 this year and 3.4 next year
Cheechoo is 3.5 this and next year.
by Alexander Calloway on May 30, 2010 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions
That's not how cap hit is computed
It’s not the amount paid in the year that is applied to the cap, but the average salary across the term of the contract. Per Capgeek: Ehrhoff’s is $3.1M for the remainder of his contract and Cheechoo’s is $3M, so really they’re even closer than I thought.
Clearly, Murray was looking for offense in return for Heatley. Yikes.
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Well it's not like he was going try get some goaltending in return
Because if he did, that would be awesome!
by Alexander Calloway on May 30, 2010 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Not pulling the trigger on that trade really hurts in retrospect. That could viably have been the difference between a first round exit and a deeper playoff run this year with Ehrhoff in the lineup.
by modsuperstar on May 30, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Ehrhoff was traded to make room for Heatley
by Alexander Calloway on May 30, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he's saying that if Ottawa had Ehrhoff they could have gone deeper than with Cheechoo
Hard to disagree with that.
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Not sure, but...
I remember reading about the trade and Murray said that Michalek was a late addition to the trade negotiation. If this is true then it was probably: Heatley for Cheechoo and Ehrhoff, with picks on one side and/or the other.
by Bikini Cowboy on May 31, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
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