A Study in Senators' Fights
by Mike Hurley on Jan 3, 2010 12:21 PM EST
9 comments
(Note: Once again I find myself stuck at work for an 8 hour shift with little-to-nothing to kill time. I found myself watching videos on hockey fights, specifically Carkner vs. Adams, and I wondered the results of Senators fights from the past decade. Unfortunately, hockeyfights.com and their wonderful voting system only reliably goes back to the lockout. What follows in some interesting points I've discovered from a morning's worth of wasting time)
In taking up this study in Senators' fights, and more specifically the results of the engagements, I was curious to know a few things. First, I wondered the winning percentages of the Senators' fighters, especially the prolific ones, in the past 5 seasons. Second, I wondered about some of the chronic antagonists that the Senators face. Finally, I was curious about how Matt Carkner (one of my new favorite Sens) is doing in comparison with some of the other Senators. My findings are as follows:
PART 1: SENATORS FIGHTERS
The following table lists the players, in order of total number of fights, their win-loss-draw record according to hockeyfights.com, and their win percentage (2 pts for a W, 1 for a draw, 0 for a L).
| W-L-D | %age | |||
| Chris Neil | 26 | 9 | 11 | .685 |
| Brian McGrattan | 17 | 12 | 8 | .568 |
| Matt Carkner | 8 | 4 | 1 | .654 |
| Mike Fisher | 4 | 0 | 4 | .750 |
| Shean Donovan | 1 | 3 | 3 | .357 |
| Jarkko Ruutu | 3 | 0 | 3 | .750 |
| Zdeno Chara | 4 | 0 | 0 | 1.000 |
| Jesse Winchester | 1 | 0 | 3 | .625 |
| Cody Bass | 1 | 2 | 1 | .375 |
| Wade Redden | 1 | 2 | 1 | .375 |
| Luke Richardson | 1 | 1 | 1 | .500 |
| Jason Spezza | 0 | 1 | 2 | .333 |
| Ray Emery | 1 | 1 | 0 | .500 |
| Mike Commodore | 0 | 1 | 1 | .250 |
| Nick Foligno | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1.000 |
| Brian Lee | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1.000 |
| Martin Lapointe | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1.000 |
| Dean McAmmond | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1.000 |
| Chris Phillips | 0 | 0 | 1 | .500 |
| Jason Smith | 0 | 0 | 1 | .500 |
| Antoine Vermette | 0 | 0 | 1 | .500 |
| Mike Comrie | 0 | 0 | 1 | .500 |
| Brad Norton | 0 | 0 | 1 | .500 |
| Dany Heatley | 0 | 0 | 1 | .500 |
| Patrick Eaves | 0 | 1 | 0 | .000 |
| Christoph Schubert | 0 | 1 | 0 | .000 |
| Danny Bois | 0 | 1 | 0 | .000 |
| Andrej Meszaros | 0 | 1 | 0 | .000 |
| Anton Volchenkov | 0 | 1 | 0 | .000 |
| Chris Kelly | 0 | 1 | 0 | .000 |
| Brian Pothier | 0 | 1 | 0 | .000 |
A few things in this interested me:
- Through half a season, Matt Carkner is already #3 in fighting over the past 5 years.
- Though not in this chart (in my more elaborate spreadsheet), Chris Neil was 18-2-5 with Brian McGrattan on the roster, but 8-7-6 without.
- Dany Heatley is a douchebag.
- Mike Fisher. Undefeated.
- Also not on this chart, but Mike Commodore is the only player in the past 5 years to fight both for and against the Senators
- Sort of a tangent, but I miss Ray Emery.
- Jason Spezza vs. Carlo Colaiacovo. Enough said.
- McGrattan: 6'4, 235 lbs. Carkner: 6'4, 231 lbs. Neil: 6'1, 215 lbs. One of these things isn't really like the others.
PART 2: ANTAGONISTS
Included in this chart is those players that have fought Senators more than 3 times in the past 5 years. These numbers are from the point of view of the player, so a W represents a time they've beaten a Senator.
| W | L | D | ||
| Adam Mair | BUF | 2 | 1 | 0 |
| Andrew Peters | BUF | 5 | 2 | 2 |
| NJD | 0 | 0 | 1 | |
| Total | 5 | 2 | 3 | |
| Cam Janssen | NJD | 1 | 2 | 0 |
| Colton Orr | BOS | 1 | 0 | 0 |
| NYR | 0 | 2 | 1 | |
| TOR | 1 | 1 | 0 | |
| Total | 2 | 3 | 1 | |
| Donald Brashear | PHI | 0 | 1 | 0 |
| WAS | 1 | 2 | 0 | |
| NYR | 0 | 0 | 1 | |
| Total | 1 | 3 | 1 | |
| David Clarkson | NJD | 2 | 0 | 1 |
| Eric Cairns | FLA | 0 | 1 | 0 |
| PIT | 0 | 1 | 1 | |
| Total | 0 | 2 | 1 | |
| Eric Godard | NYI | 0 | 1 | 2 |
| PIT | 2 | 0 | 0 | |
| Total | 2 | 1 | 2 | |
| Jim Slater | ATL | 0 | 2 | 1 |
| Paul Gaustad | BUF | 1 | 2 | 0 |
| Shawn Thornton | BOS | 2 | 1 | 1 |
| Steve Downie | PHI | 0 | 1 | 0 |
| TAM | 0 | 2 | 1 | |
| Total | 0 | 3 | 1 | |
| Wade Belak | TOR | 0 | 3 | 1 |
| Zenon Konopka | TAM | 1 | 1 | 1 |
Again, some interesting stats here:
- Andrew Peters with 10 fights against the Senators? Unreal.
- Steve Downie is a douche. A winless douche, the worst kind.
- I'm kind of thinking the Sabres don't like us much. The Devils too.
In conclusion, there are certainly some interesting trends over the past 5 years. As expected, fighting is typically left up to the pugilists (McGrattan, Neil, Carkner) with few others dropping the gloves with any frequency. As well, this season is on pace to be the most scrap-filled year in nearly a decade for Ottawa, an interesting change of pace. Clearly, the team is in good hands (or, more appropriately, fists).
This FanPost was written by a member of the Silver Seven community, and does not necessarily reflect the beliefs or opinions of the site managers, editors, or Sports Blogs Nation, Inc.
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Brian Lee is the perfect fighter!
Silver Seven: the Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators blogs.
by DarrenM on Jan 3, 2010 1:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The Thornton-Carkner fight back in October was one of the best in recent memory; now that I think of it the Sens have had a bunch of quality tilts so far this year, certainly more than any other year I can think of in recent memory.
Great to see IMO, I think it really speaks to how our season has gone so far: emotion and hard-play making up for a lack of talent. The ‘care-level’ as Pierre might say is higher than its been at any point in the last couple seasons.
If they can keep the emotion riding high all season this team wont be an easy out for anyone come playoff time (assuming we make it).
Cannot play with 'em, cannot win with 'em, cannot coach with 'em. Cant do it.
by Andrew J on Jan 3, 2010 5:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I agree with Andrew. I think this is a team unlike any other Sens team before. This team seems to have more grit and maybe a little more character then teams we’ve fielded in the last few years. I look at a game like today where we blew a 3 goal lead to the Flyers only to buckle down and turn the tide to win the game. I think the team is finding itself without Alfie and Spezza. I really like the idea of getting back a healthy Spezza(hopefully over the lingering back issue) and Alfie for the stretch run could really make this team dangerous now that some of that secondary scoring seems to have found its groove in their absence.
by modsuperstar on Jan 3, 2010 11:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Carkner needs to pad his stats
I suggest bouts with Jim Slater and Wade Belak.
by PeterR on Jan 4, 2010 8:21 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
And another couple with Steve Downie. For everyone’s sake.
by Mike Hurley on Jan 4, 2010 12:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Effective Fighters
Great to see Neil has a good success rate in fighting (and what else could we expect from a heart and soul player?). These days in the NHL it’s not good enough to just be a fighter. What a waste of a roster spot that is. Efffective fighters like Neil and Carkner also have other roles that are almost or more important than fighting. Thank god we don’t have useless fighters like Orr or Boogard.
On an aside, this made me think about the “trade Neil” calls some people make, bringing up his 2 mil pricetag. I think anyone who says Murray should trade Neil is absolutely crazy. Neil is a heart and soul player who is proud to wear the Sens jersey. He talked about that when Heatley wanted out, he didn’t want a player on the team who wasn’t proud of the jersey and I think it’s about time we hear that from a player who is proud and happy to be a Sen. I don’t know if it’s just me but it seems that there are not enough players who express their pride this way, and we need to keep them around. If Neil was not on this team I think it would greatly affect the chemistry of the team.
by Sens_4_Life on Jan 4, 2010 2:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I wanted to trade Neil at the deadline last season
May look crazy now, but it looked like his play was really falling off after a couple of poor seasons, and his market value was still high—sort of like the situation we had with Wade Redden, except (obviously) completely different players.
A lot has happened since then, though. There were the off-ice things he did to enamour himself to fans, but most importantly has been his effective play on the ice. If he keeps playing the way he started through his contract, and I’ve said it before, it will be a heck of a deal for both sides.
by PeterR on Jan 5, 2010 1:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agree.
I agree Neil was making it hard the last couple seasons for anyone to fight too hard to keep him on the team. I think, though, it might have been a reflection on how the team as a whole was making it difficult to fight for anyone to stay on the team. I think it’s safe to say most of us are glad Neil wasn’t traded from the roster, especially considering what we would have got for him (middle- to late-round draft pick).
by Sens_4_Life on Jan 6, 2010 6:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Im not one of them. Cody Bass is younger, cheaper and a better fit for a 3rd/4th line role. The role players are playing well but they’re still getting 2nd and 3rd line money to play 3rd and 4th line roles.
Cannot play with 'em, cannot win with 'em, cannot coach with 'em. Cant do it.
by Andrew J on Jan 6, 2010 6:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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