San Jose: Heatley's final suitor?
Reports in both the Ottawa Sun and the Silicon Valley Mercury News discussed the possibility of Disgruntled Dany Heatley (possibly his next book title) being traded to the San Jose Sharks. The gist of both stories is that Ottawa will make this trade if it makes sense, and Sharks GM Doug Wilson may still be looking to shake up the Western Conference's response to the Ottawa Senators... by acquiring a player who's asked out of Ottawa.
The Sun had the more interesting article, stating that San Jose had already offered a package of Jonathan Cheechoo, Christian Ehrhoff, and a first-round draft choice for Heatley, but that that deal was nixed by Ottawa, says Bruce 'Malkin to the Kings' Garrioch:
"The Senators don’t want anything to do with winger Jonathan Cheechoo, who has been offered as part of a package along with defenceman Christian Erhoff and a first-round selection."
Not sure how San Jose could have afforded to even discuss that possibility given their current cap situation, but it poses an interesting possibility.
In the Mercury News, there were no 'concrete' reports of possible trades, but author Mark Purdy did suggest that a package equivalent to that offered by the Edmonton Oilers could look something like this:
"You're probably wondering what the Sharks have to give up for Heatley. The Oilers' aborted attempt might provide a clue. It was widely reported that the Edmontons offered Ottawa a package of three players — Dustin Penner, Andrew Cogliano and Ladislav Smid. This would be the rough equivalent to the Sharks offering up Milan Michalek, Jonathan Cheechoo and Marc-Edouard Vlasic."
A much more enticing package, if you ask me, but it would once again put the Sharks in salary cap hell. And Ottawa wouldn't be too far off, with the steep and long-term cap hit of $4.33M until 2013-14 for Michalek, $3M per year for the next two for Cheechoo, and $3.1 for three more years for Vlasic.
(Read more... )
It remains unclear what the asking price would be for the Senators, but it would probably have one thing involved: Two top-six forwards. The Edmonton deal had that (Penner and Cogliano), and it's chief among the Senators' needs for the upcoming season if they're going to find a way to compensate for losing Heatley's production by building greater scoring depth. To make the numbers work, those forwards may have to be younger players on their first or second contracts.
If this deal gets done, I'll be pretty amazed. It just seems like we're destined to have a catastrophic season with a built-in excuse.
In other news, Purdy did report something new on the Heatley front:
"Heatley has raised hackles in Ottawa since last spring, when word leaked that he had demanded a trade. Heatley was reportedly dissatisfied with Senators Coach Cory Clouston over diminished ice time. Another story was that Heatley had demanded to be named team captain."
I had never heard that report yet, but if that's among the problems, then Heatley's even farther removed from reality than originally thought. This is a team that has an established captain who's not going anywhere, not even in favour of Zdeno Chara as captain; if the thought is that after an off-year when he barely spoke to the media, took stupid penalties, and suffered dramatic point reduction (although so did everyone else) he would deserve the captaincy, the it's nuts. Almost as crazy as the report that Heatley was looking to escape the rampant drug use in the Senators' organization.
If the final partner is indeed the San Jose Sharks, who do you want in return from them? What package do you think is reasonable?
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43 comments
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Comments
Oh, I see we've reached the unsubstantiated rumors portion of this absurd situation!
Heatley demanding to be named team captain? That’s like Messier demanding to be referred to as “The Great One” while still playing with Gretzky. Trying to escape drug use?! What, are Phillips and Volchenkov holding him down while Alfie sticks a needle in him to get him addicted?
I don’t believe for one second that Heatley would demand to be named team captain. Unhappy with reduced ice time? Sure, I could see that. But there’s no way he’d have the stones to demand a captaincy. Maybe if Alfie had just retired, but Heatley has been around hockey long enough to know that the C is earned.
If it were me, I’d like to see Joe Pavelski as part of any deal that sends Heatley to San Jose, ideally as a replacement for Kelly. I would also like to see the Sharks take on some of Ottawa’s extra salary, but they’re so close to the cap this is completely unrealistic. I believe the Sens are set at D for the next few years (assuming Volchie is re-signed), so Erhoff is worthless as trade bait to me.
My ideal trade is Heatley, Kelly, Schubert and Smith for Cheechoo, Michalek, and Pavelski. By my calculations, that leaves Ottawa at a cap hit of $56.808M and San Jose at a cap hit of $57.076M (with some relief coming as Smith and Schubert are both UFA after this year), so both teams would still have to do some maneuvering. Plus, that’s a hugely Ottawa-favored trade, so the Sharks would probably never go for it.
I don’t know how these teams can make a deal with the salary handcuffs they have. A team with a lot of cap space, like the Thrashers, would have to get involved and swallow up some salary in exchange for picks — and a lot of them.
by Mark Parisi on Aug 2, 2009 2:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yes, somehow I do not see Heatley as the captain-aspiring type.
The drug comments sound ridiculous.
I like your trade suggestion, but unlikely sharks would go for it.
by aagoodfella on Aug 2, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think we might be able to get them to go for it if we throw in some dead weight we’ve been trying to unload. like smith, and even shcubert (who i’m going to miss). for just heatley yes it might be much, but we could make it work.
by xBKx14 on Aug 4, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There’s no cap space in San Jose. Sorry to burst your bubble.
Jon Casey fan since '84
by stufflife on Aug 4, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i over looked that. if san jose really wants heatley, they’ll make it work for them. and to get what they want we need what we want. so who knows.
by xBKx14 on Aug 4, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i’m quite a fan of the messier comment. great work.
by DarrenM on Aug 2, 2009 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cheechoo, Ehrhoff and 1st round not particularly appealing to the Sens
Cheechoo’s numbers are tanking steadily and for several years now.
Ehrhoff is ok but just adds more congestion at D.
1st round is nice, but SJ 1st round could very easily be a 30th pick.
If Sens were offered this deal, they were probably right to reject it.
by aagoodfella on Aug 2, 2009 4:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
my off-season excitment has be revamped.
i’m rather apualed by these new rumors about why heatley wants to leave. the only one that really makes sense is the original, i think it’s souly about ice time. good comparison by markparisi on the captaincy rumor. but to what’s important, i’m now hearing that ottawa isn’t interested in what san jose had to offer. (good players, but i guess i can see why they wouldn’t want them), so for san jose who seems determined to win this sweepstakes, i’ve read a third team will have to be involved. that team has been rumored to be montreal. now here is where i’m lost. what young, proven, wingers or centers do montreal have to offer us? how do you guys think a three way trade with these teams would play out?
by xBKx14 on Aug 4, 2009 1:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think the “Montreal as the third team” rumors have about as much credence as the “Heatley demanded to be captain” rumors. The thrid team in any deal has to be one that has cap space to absorb some salary coupled with some high draft picks.
While I’d like to believe that the Thrashers would take guys like Smith and Schubert if it meant they went into next year’s draft with three first round picks (Theirs, Ottawa’s and San Jose’s), I don’t see how a trade is going to happen. Every GM in the league is going to lowball Murray, and if he sticks to his guns (and he should), Heatley won’t be moved.
by Mark Parisi on Aug 4, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
here's another ridiclous thought. this is just an idea.
thinking back to how close we were to sinking penner, smid and cogliano makes me think about how edmonton involved again. i can’t imagine edmonton’s back is at the cap, but i’m sure they don’t have as low a payroll as say the thrashers. so here’s my though. what if edmonton was the third team. san jose got heatley, we get cogliano, penner and smid, and edmonton gets cheechoo ect. from san jose. it’s merely a pipe-dream but as far in as i’ve looked in to my idea, i don’t see the flaw in it. just to keep throw in/dreaming, i’ll add that zherdev finally an official free agent now.
by xBKx14 on Aug 4, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, I like your thinking here
I have no love for Smid, though. He has the same value as Ehrhoff in my opinion. We don’t need more defensemen. I’d still want someone like Pavelski come to us from San Jose but that is a complete impossiblity in this scenario.
I think the biggest flaw with this is that I don’t see the upgrade for Edmonton. I mean, yeah, they get a 1st rounder but that’s going to be what, 29? 30? I think Marleau would have to be involved for the Oilers to be interested, and that results in San Jose gutting a team that just won a President’s trophy for just Heatley.
Though… what if it went something like this:
SJ gets: Heatley
Ottawa gets: Cogliano, Penner, Pavelski
Edmonton gets: Marleau, Ottawa’s 1st round pick
I don’t know what the cap implications of that are. It’s probably an even bigger pipe dream.
by Mark Parisi on Aug 4, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some great armchair GMs on this site
Ottawa wants to move Heatley, get some scoring depth: Check
San Jose wants to make a splash: Check
Edmonton wants to make a splash, acquire star power: Check
Of course, Marleau has a NTC, and Ottawa does give up a fair bit. But it’s a pretty good trade, if you ask me.
by PeterR on Aug 4, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ottaw gives up Heatley AND a first round pick for Cogliano, Penner, Pavelski
correct me if I am wrong, Pavelski (1 year at $1.6M, then RFA), Penner (3 years at $4.25M, then UFA), Cogliano (1 year at $1.1M, then RFA) versus Heatley (5 years at $7.5M, then UFA) and 1 first round pick
that is horrible trade … talk about mortgaging your future?
by aagoodfella on Aug 5, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You make it sound like we can't negotiate with the players once we sign them.
As it stands today, in the same year that Pavelski and Cogliano go RFA, Ottawa has the following UFAs:
Schubert (almost certainly won’t be re-signed)
Donovan (also probably won’t be re-signed)
Shannon (may be re-signed)
Smith (gone for sure)
Volchenkov (Better be re-signed)
RFAs that year:
Foligno (better be re-signed)
Winchester (probably can be had for cheap)
Bass (No idea what will happen there)
Zubov (same thing, could go either way)
Regin (better make the team, can be had for cheap)
Hennessy (Goner)
Lee (will probably be re-signed)
Picard (goner)
Campoli (goner)
Assuming Schubert, Donovan, Smith, Hennessy, Picard, and Campoli are the ONLY ones to go, that’s a savings of $6.175M. Add in the $7.5M off the books from Heatley’s salary and the team has $13.675M to work with. They should be able to sign Cogliano, Pavelski, and Volchenkov easily.
by Mark Parisi on Aug 5, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i like the point you make here with our free agents next year.
i’m not ready to say campoli is a goner yet though. i think he has potential to improve from the decent game he plays already.
by xBKx14 on Aug 5, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, I'm a fan of Campoli's game
I just think with Kuba, Phillips, Volchenkov and Karlsson (and possibly Lee) already on the team and Cowan and Wiercioch waiting in the wings, he’s going to be a victim of a numbers game.
by Mark Parisi on Aug 5, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
based on what I have seen of Campoli in Ottawa, he should be re-signed
Picard is not an auto-goner — his numbers are good
let me ask you about Vochenkov … sure he blocks alot of shots, but maybe folks score anyway while he is laying on the ice …. the guy is -10 last year – i m not sure he is such a “better be re-signed” candidate
personally, I would rather have a proven league elite sniper locked in for 5 years than 3 middling players two of whom may or may not be around 2 seasons from now and the 3rd is under contract for 3 years
by aagoodfella on Aug 5, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can see your point
After all, 50 goal scorers don’t grow on trees. I suppose it’s just a philosophical difference — I’d take 20 goals from three other players as opposed to 50 from one. I’m a believer in balanced scoring.
As for Volchenkov, before this year he was a +21, +37, and +14. I’d like to see his numbers with a full year under Clouston. I think he’s the kind of player whose value goes up in the playoffs when clogging shooting lanes becomes critical.
by Mark Parisi on Aug 5, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep, those are good numbers – i might have to rethink my view on him
by aagoodfella on Aug 5, 2009 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i know what you mean.
but simply put. i like anton. and i think he’s valuable to us. despite the off year.
by xBKx14 on Aug 5, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i would do it. bringing serious depth here for the first time in a long time.
we would have 3 very dangerous lines. as compared to one. offensive depth has been our only concern in the cashline era. i think san jose would be able to part with marleau mainly because i can see them parting anyways when he’s a ufa after the end of this year. so it seems realistic to see his name in a trade for heatley.
by xBKx14 on Aug 5, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
depth is a great virtue in an NHL team
however, I would disagree that this trade would give the Sens 3 “very dangerous” lines as you characterize them — at best, it would be 3 capable lines
and as for Marleau, I cannot reiterate or emphasize enough the futility in trading a 5-year contract for a bunch of 1-3 year contracts — from an organizational perspective, it is truly dysfunctional
by aagoodfella on Aug 5, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But again, those contracts can be extended. If the team trades for those guys, it would have to be with the intention of extending them. Trading Heatley just to let guys walk would be dysfunctional, as you say.
by Mark Parisi on Aug 5, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush
yea, you can re-sign them or they can walk
there is a monster difference between a signed contract and hopefully getting a signed contract
by aagoodfella on Aug 5, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course, if the player with the signed contract doesn’t show up to camp, your point becomes moot…
by Mark Parisi on Aug 5, 2009 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, than the Sens have $7.5M (less cap excess) to spend on free agents — but even Heatley is not that foolish, unless maybe he was thinking of playing in Russia for a few years
by aagoodfella on Aug 5, 2009 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It will be quite interesting to see if the rumors are true and Heatley is traded this week… and if so, what Ottawa gets in return for him.
by Mark Parisi on Aug 5, 2009 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But long-term contracts can backfire
Given the uncertainty surrounding the cap for next season and those in the future, flexibility is a valuable thing right now.
by PeterR on Aug 5, 2009 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
personally, if I am running an NHL team, getting a guy like Heatley is a tougher challenge than adjusting payroll by a million or two. If I get a guy like Heatley signed for 5 years – no way would I let him go. He can cry and snivel all he wants. “Lace em up, bee-yotch. You are a Senator now.” LOL
by aagoodfella on Aug 5, 2009 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hell yeah! Force him to play! It worked with Yashin!
Oh. Wait…
by Mark Parisi on Aug 5, 2009 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It kind of worked with Yashin...
He cam back and scored 40G and 48A in 82GP, his second-best season statistically in the NHL, and then we traded him in what is likely the Senators’ best trade ever.
by PeterR on Aug 6, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course, he promptly followed it with 1 assist in a sweep to the Leafs, a series I felt he didn’t make any effort whatsoever in.
by Mark Parisi on Aug 6, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i read somewhere that Yasin still maintains a residence in Ottawa and would like to again play for the Sens — any truth to that?
Anyhow, since the Sens were willing to sit a year out with Yashin and punt Emery to Russia, it might make Heatley a bit more wary that the Sens will play hardball if he chooses to go that route.
by aagoodfella on Aug 6, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
See also:
Hossa, Meszaros, Chara (sigh… ), Havlat (sigh again… ), and the list goes on. The Senators have a storied history of playing hardball with players.
by PeterR on Aug 6, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did they play hardball with Chara, though? Everything I’ve read said that everyone thought Chara was the one to keep but Muckler felt an obligation to Redden… and of course there wasn’t enough money for both.
by Mark Parisi on Aug 6, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Word is they offered both Redden and Chara $6M to keep both, and Redden said okay while Chara said no. So they did what they did. Right or wrong, Ottawa rarely lets players dictate their terms. Although that seems to be changing under the current regime (see: Neil, Fisher, Kuba).
by PeterR on Aug 6, 2009 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
very dangerous was a little much, but still.
this trade could make our salary much more flexible.this could make a salary with less commitments. and we can all agree our salary has alot of those currently. i’m with mark on this one. i’m for balanced strength of many against one outstanding individual. 50 goal scorers don’t grow on trees very true, but look at pittsburgh for example. 2 superstars (malkin, crosby) and plently of depth. (even if it did come from unlikely places *talbot) we could have 2 stars, with alfie and spezza, and plently of depth.
by xBKx14 on Aug 5, 2009 3:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
realistically, how much longer does Alfie have in his career before he either retires or his production falls off precipitously
you cannot forge plans on the basis of Alfie anymore … he is a windfall to have at this point and you hope to keep him around as much as possible .. you can no longer build the team around him
you can build a team around Spezza and Heatley — two young / prime guys with long term contracts — that is how you build winners
by aagoodfella on Aug 5, 2009 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
franchise players are hard to come by.
technically, the only one of the big three were honestly home grown, that was alfie. don’t forget spezza’s draft pick was acquired along with chara for yashin. the point i’m making here is that when alfie’s gone, there will be another high scoring right-winger to be had, if that means getting him via trade, draft, or free agency. i’m just saying. when alfie’s gone, all isn’t lost because we’re left with only spezza, and we let heatley bail out 4 years ago. heatley would have to be resigned a year after alfie retires, and like mentioned earlier with players being resigned, maybe HE wouldn’t want to resigned, then all the sudden we’ve lost 2 stars in 2 off seasons. nobody knows how we’ll feel about this then.
by xBKx14 on Aug 5, 2009 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if the Sens cannot put together a Stanley Cup winning team in the next few years with Heatley and Spezza and Alfie as the core …. it will be time to gut and rebuild … so whether or not Heatley re-signs will probably have no meaningful implications
by aagoodfella on Aug 5, 2009 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

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