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Around SBN: Please, Someone Make Bob Sapp Stop Already

Size is not an excuse for a high hit

Ed Jovanovski was suspended recently for a hit to the head on Andrew Ebbett, which sparked a bit of controversy. You see, every time a small guy gets hit in the head by a big guy, people in the hockey community rise up and decide that the big guy was not at fault. The classic argument, and one that was posted over Twitter in defence of Jovo, is that the offender is simply being punished for being big: "the hit would be considered legal to player taller than 5'9". Its punishment to Jovo who's 6'3"."

The problem with this argument is that Jovanovski didn't hit a player that was taller. He hit a small player, and could see that he was hitting a small player. This argument is akin to getting undressed in front of a coworker and, during your wrongful dismissal claim, trying to argue, "Come on! If she was a man it'd be okay!" You can't argue that something is fine in other circumstances, you have to take the circumstances as you find them. Jovanovski found himself defending a short player, and he has to handle that situation accordingly. He's not less blameworthy, nor is he exonerated, simply because he's a big player.

In the Ebbett example, Jovanovski is in the best position to prevent the situation, which puts the responsibility to avoid the situation in his hands. There are a variety of ways to strip Ebbett of the puck that don't involve a forearm to the head. When people make the big vs small argument, they are blaming the victim. The victim that, in this case, has suffered a concussion that will adversely effect him for the rest of his life. They're also blaming the kind of player who has a tough enough time making it to the NHL with his diminutive stature as it is, let alone with people calling for big guys to be able to hit as they please without any caution for smaller players - hell, imagine Derek Boogard and Zdeno Chara arguing that the concussion they caused would've been a legal hit on someone their size. The argument is further weakened when you realize that this rationale effectively prevents Martin St Louis or Andrew Ebbett or Ryan Shannon from going into corners or even near any player over 6'2", as they are bound to get concussed if players are allowed to hit them as they'd hit other tall players. Size is simply not an excuse for dangerous hits to the opposition, nor is this a case of Jovanovski being punished for size. It's punishment for a hit to the head, and size doesn't enter into it.

The key thing to realize is that a high hit isn't bad because you are jumping, or that you're trying to reach above where you'd normally hit -- that's not why it's penalized. It is penalized because it is a hit that targets or connects mainly with the head of the opposing player, making it very dangerous. The same is true of a big player not taking into account the size of a smaller player, and knocking them in the head. It's a high hit, and one that the league has to remove from the sport.

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Nicely stated

I linked to this article from my post over at Hockey Wilderness. Thanks for your take!

Proprietor of Hockey Wilderness - We take Minnesota hockey WAY too seriously.

by nathaneide on Dec 9, 2009 1:58 PM EST reply actions  

Hey, thanks for the link!

Silver Seven: the Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators blogs.

by DarrenM on Dec 9, 2009 2:05 PM EST up reply actions  

How does this change the game?

There should be a level of care taken with this kind of an article, especially for a blog that supports the Senators, who do have a pair of questionable hitters in Anton Volchenkov and Chris Phillips. Phillips is also 6’3" and would be open to such a discussion now that the precedent has been set about size. Just a point of note…

Next, my point of consideration is what precedent has this hit set. My initial argument on the Twitter account was surrounded a big guy hitting a little guy with, what is considered to be, a clean hockey hit. This isn’t to take away from the fact that he did hit him in the head with his forearm, its true, he did and within the NHL crackdown, that is suspension worthy.

My question really surrounds the next time Daniel Briere comes over the blueline and Chris Phillips gets him with the same kind of push from his chest, which gets Briere in the face, does the suspension come? Does the style of defending now have to change? Does the definition of a clean hit change depending on the size of the player?

If an open-ice hit, which isn’t led by an elbow or the stick now garners a suspension, no matter the size of the player, what does that do to the effectiveness of the game? What does that do to the effectiveness of the players on your team, the Senators?

This suspension opens a larger can of worms, rather than the single incident that has offered up a suspension.

Clayton
"The Opiated Sherpa"
@opiatedsherpa on Twitter

by OpiatedSherpa on Dec 9, 2009 2:10 PM EST reply actions  

It's simple:

If Phillips hits Briere hard to the head when Briere is standing upright, then Phillips made a bad play and should be suspended. You owe a duty of care to the hockey players around you to not injure them in preventable situations.

Again, the Jovo hit (or Phillips example) is not a clean hit, as it’s a hit to the head. The definition of a clean hit remains the same after this suspension as it’s always been — hit the guy in the shoulder, or in the body. Don’t hit him in the head! This doesn’t change the effectiveness of the game, or anything. It’s simply common sense, and that’s the way it’s supposed to be.

If a defenceman can’t remain effective without hitting another player in the head, then they shouldn’t be in the NHL. You can’t allow dangerous plays for fear that you’ll ruin the effectiveness of a few neanderthals who can’t figure out how to hit a guy without knocking off their skull.

Silver Seven: the Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators blogs.

by DarrenM on Dec 9, 2009 2:31 PM EST up reply actions  

I would like to know...

… if now my favourite team, the Canucks, should be trading Willie Mitchell, Sami Salo and Shane O’Brien, because they are no good to us as bigger defensemen who are now suspension-prone.

Clayton
"The Opiated Sherpa"
@opiatedsherpa on Twitter

by OpiatedSherpa on Dec 9, 2009 2:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, don’t worry about Sami Salo, if he hits someone he’ll probably just get injured, anyway.

Seriously, though, O’Brien is suspension prone, but Mitchell knows how to hit without hitting to the head, even against smaller players. This isn’t a new thing, we’ve seen big defencemen suspended for causing concussions after hitting smaller players before. This isn’t a new precedent being set, in my opinion.

by Peter Raaymakers on Dec 9, 2009 2:46 PM EST up reply actions  

But how are they suspension prone?

Is your argument seriously that they can’t control their arms? It sounds like that’s what you’re saying, but I don’t want to put words in your mouth.

by Mark Parisi on Dec 9, 2009 2:46 PM EST up reply actions  

No, again, as Peter pointed out, lots of big defenceman are extremely effective without hitting to the head.

I think the Canucks should trade Shane O Brien because he’s an idiot who takes stupid penalties at the worst of times (and my mom agrees with me whole heartedly on this).

I’m not saying there’s no place for big defencemen – they’re still ideal. They can just control themselves, like they do 95% of the time anyways.

Silver Seven: the Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators blogs.

by DarrenM on Dec 9, 2009 2:49 PM EST up reply actions  

The thing is, Phillips and Volchenkov play with a physical edge without causing concussions

… which is proof that bigger players don’t automatically concuss a smaller player that they hit. A lot of Volchenkov’s hits come lower than most, anyway, because he’s a hipchecker, but even when Phillips stands guys up, he hits them cleanly. You can take a guy off the puck effectively without hitting him to the head, even if he is much shorter than you.

by Peter Raaymakers on Dec 9, 2009 2:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Can you...

I don’t see how you can claim Phillips is a “clean hitter” now that the suspension has been handed down and the specifications of a clean hitter has changed. Can you honestly tell me that Phillips hasn’t hit a 5’9" player in the head in a clean hockey hit?

The face of the game and its physical play has now changed.

Clayton
"The Opiated Sherpa"
@opiatedsherpa on Twitter

by OpiatedSherpa on Dec 9, 2009 2:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I've watched almost every Sens game

And I can’t recall Chris Phillips ever hitting someone in the head. Same with Volchenkov, who prefers the hip check. Chris Neil is a far dirtier player in my opinion (ask Chris Drury) and he is only 6’1" tall.

by Mark Parisi on Dec 9, 2009 2:49 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm surprised at the implication that team loyalty somehow outweighs player safety

I am a Senators fan and if Phillips hit Briere in the head with an elbow, I would argue that he deserves a 20-game suspension, regardless of intent. I believe the responsbility for clean play falls on the hitter, regardless of size. Players should not be able to argue they’re unable to control their bodies — hitting someone in the head is much different than not being able to stop before you hit a goalie.

by Mark Parisi on Dec 9, 2009 2:44 PM EST up reply actions  

The team was just an example...

Again, I am not debating the hit to the head. I am now debating the value of big player, fi he cannot lead with his forearm in what would be considered a clean hit on a player of equal size. This is how players are taught to hit in open ice, without any regard to their size.

I would want to know how Tyler Myers, the youngest big man in the league, was taught how to hit a player in open ice.

If a tall defenseman sees a smaller player and cannot hit without the fear of touching his head (because of course there is going to be force involved), then what’s the point?

Clayton
"The Opiated Sherpa"
@opiatedsherpa on Twitter

by OpiatedSherpa on Dec 9, 2009 2:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Then get lower to the ice when you make your hit. We’ve pointed out how Chara and the like don’t hit to the head.

It’s not a problem if you touch his head, it’s a problem if you hit and the main point of contact is the head. It’s avoidable, and it’s dangerous.

Silver Seven: the Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators blogs.

by DarrenM on Dec 9, 2009 2:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Is it avoidable?

Remember the 2002 Playoff series against Philadelphia? Are you forgetting the Big Z’s bodycheck to Roenick’s head in Game 3 of that series, which resulted in Roenick missing the rest of the series due to concussion-like symtoms?

Sometimes collisions are unavoidable such as Ladd’s hit on D’Agostini. Sometimes a clean check can be seen as overly vicious and blatantly avoidable as was in this case. In the 2 and half years watching Ladd with the ‘Hawks I’ve seen make that type of hit many of times but on that night he caught D’Agostini flat-footed and with his head down. Should Ladd stop trying to make that hit? And if so do you not think Q and Scotty Bowman may show him the exit? He has to play like that to be effective and a major part of that is using his size and strength to set a physical tone.

Conversely, did I like seeing our franchise captain Toews go down due to a mid-ice collision? No, but it ‘s a part of the game and Mitchell used his frame and hit Toews cleanly. Was it a blow to the head? Yes. But should’ve Mitchell been suspended? Absolutely not as it was a clean hit. The blame should more fall on Brouwer for giving him that pass and Niemi for not alerting the guys on the ice that the penalty was set to expire. The same could be said of the Kronwall hit on Havlat. Sometimes it’s just plain unavoidable.

Scenario: Let’s say there is a battle along the boards for the puck and Byfuglien decides to come with some force (using all of his 257-lbs. frame) and at the last moment Ryan Shannon comes out with the puck and has his head down, is Byfuglien supposed to halt his progression? No, he continues on and what if his shoulder hit Shannon’s head laying out him in the process should Byfuglein be suspended? It’s perposterous to think that he should.

Sometimes things happen and injuries end up being the result. I don’t like seeing either but hitting has to be part of the game as long as it’s done within the confines of the rules. My biggest problem is guys coming back too early from this type of injury thus increasing the chances of reoccurance, which is not only damaging to the team but puts the players life in jeopardy.

Great post DarrenM. Well written, and well done my friend.

It's never about the eventual destination, but rather the long journey and its challenging obstacles that are presented and what it takes to overcome them, that makes the taste of success all the more worthwhile!!!

by hawks61 on Dec 10, 2009 10:53 PM EST up reply actions  

But the crux of your argument remains that the tall defenseman is somehow unable to control his forearm. The onus of control is on the hitter, regardless of size.

by Mark Parisi on Dec 9, 2009 2:52 PM EST up reply actions  

REMEMBER DEAN

DEAN MCAMMOND IS A HERO

Great take. And I think it’s telling that the tallest player in the league, Zdeno Chara, is rarely if ever surrounded by controversies such as this one. Jovo and Chris Pronger need to be conscious of the fact that their hit will make contact with a smaller players head, putting not only that player’s career at risk, but also his general lifestyle.

by Peter Raaymakers on Dec 9, 2009 2:33 PM EST reply actions  

Exactly

Chara uses his size as an advantage through reach and strength. That’s a huge advantage, without having to hand out concussions.

Silver Seven: the Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators blogs.

by DarrenM on Dec 9, 2009 2:36 PM EST up reply actions  

I’ll be honest, I have just now watched the video of the hit. It was dirty. Jovanovski didn’t have his timing right for the hit, bottom line. Because he didn’t have the timing right, he hit the guy to the head, and he’s got to take responsibility for that.

by Peter Raaymakers on Dec 9, 2009 8:02 PM EST reply actions  

The size argument does have merit, but it should ONLY be used for incidental contact to the head. It’s the Chara-St. Louis argument. How is Chara supposed to hit St. Louis without catching his head? But if Chara ONLY catches St. Louis head then that’s different.

Jovo should have been suspended because there was no incidental head contact, it was pretty much fully on Ebbet’s head. But if this hit was like the Raffi Torres hit on Jason Williams a few years ago (Torres caught Williams’ entire upper body, including his head) then it shouldn’t be suspendible.

by Belligerent Burkie on Dec 9, 2009 8:04 PM EST reply actions  

Good point.

Incidental contact arguments do have merit, and I guess I should’ve outlined that. But incidental contact usually isn’t dangerous. A huge guy hitting a smaller guy like he would hit anyone else IS dangerous.

Silver Seven: the Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators blogs.

by DarrenM on Dec 9, 2009 8:25 PM EST up reply actions  

But who decides what's incidental?

Chara may not be able to avoid hitting St. Louis in the head when hitting the rest of him, but Torres took eight strides (including four full ones) from almost his own blueline to hit Williams. He may have hit him shoulder first, but charging a defenseless player is hardly “incidental.” That hit is equally as dirty as Jovo’s in my eyes.

by Mark Parisi on Dec 9, 2009 9:31 PM EST up reply actions  

What hit are you looking at? From his own blueline? He was in the high slot, takes about 5 strides, glides into Williams and boom goes the dynamite. How is that dirty? That’s pretty much a textbook open ice hit. You do have to skate in order to hit the guy. Otherwise he’ll run you over or just go around you.

Incidental contact is basically when the head is hit, but is clearly not the target. For example, the player isn’t leaning up and over with his shoulder, he doesn’t use a forearm, etc… It’s not that hard to determine, especially if you’ve been involved with hockey most / all of you life; which 95% of not 100% of the people who do supplementary discipline have.

by Belligerent Burkie on Dec 9, 2009 11:23 PM EST up reply actions  

You’re right, my memory was a little faulty there. He’s definitely in the slot, but he definitely takes eight strides towards Williams. Just because he’s not striding when he hits him doesn’t mean it’s not charging. He takes a run at a defenseless guy. How is that not dirty?

Obviously you have to skate to hit a guy, but Williams does not have the puck at that point. Torres is not at risk of getting run over or gone around — Williams is unarguably defenseless.

For my tastes, your definition of incidental is far too narrow. Incidental implies without intent. There’s no doubt Torres didn’t intend to hit Williams in the head — and really, I don’t think he does, I think most of the damage came when Williams’ face hit the ice — but the same can’t be said about his intent to hit a player totally unaware a hit was coming.

by Mark Parisi on Dec 10, 2009 12:52 AM EST up reply actions  

Small Man Syndrome?

While reading thsi piece, did anyone else get the impression that the author is like 5’7" or something…? No, just me? Alright, then…

by Hilleraj on Dec 10, 2009 1:20 PM EST reply actions  

Good eye – I’m 5’6". Ha!

But it’s not small man syndrome. From my experience with dudes with small man syndrome, they try to make up for their lack of size through overly macho behaviour and being complete assholes. That’s a far cry from the type of person I am (or, at least, what I strive to be).

Thanks for joining Silver Seven, and I hope to see you continue posting.

Silver Seven: the Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators blogs.

by DarrenM on Dec 10, 2009 4:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, and I’m 6’4", and I’m with Darren on this one.

You can’t use your height to justify hitting another player, it’s irresponsible. Particularly in this instance, where the only reason Jovo even made contact to the head was because he’d lost the angle on Ebbett. Did he mean to? Maybe not, but he wasn’t in control, and it injured an opponent. He needs to be held responsible for that.

by Peter Raaymakers on Dec 10, 2009 7:03 PM EST up reply actions  

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